Hi Anders --

Thanks, and thanks for the info on the 53230A.  I have not used one of
those myself but the data sheet lists 20ps single-shot.

Also I should note that the TICC does not compete with counters like the
53230A for high speed measurement, or frequency counting.  It does far
fewer measurements per second than the high-end counters -- my design
criteria was for use in PPS measuring system.

With the current software, the actual measurement processing time is
about 1 millisecond; we may be able to optimize a hundred or two
microseconds from that as the code currently has more 64 bit operations
than are necessary, and there are other things that can surely be tweaked.

The killer is the serial output via USB.  It can take up to 10 ms to
output 20 characters, and that's what really limits the measurement
rate.  I'm pretty sure this can be improved (one idea is to buffer
results to reduce USB packetization delays), but there's other
functionality that I need to finish first.

Hi Anders --

Thanks, and thanks for the info on the 53230A.  I have not used one of those myself but the data sheet lists 20ps single-shot.

Also I should note that the TICC does not compete with counters like the 53230A for high speed measurement, or frequency counting.  It does far fewer measurements per second than the high-end counters -- my design criteria was for use in PPS measuring system.

With the current software, the actual measurement processing time is about 1 millisecond; we may be able to optimize a hundred or two microseconds from that as the code currently has more 64 bit operations than are necessary, and there are other things that can surely be tweaked.

The killer is the serial output via USB.  It can take up to 10 ms to output 20 characters, and that's what really limits the measurement rate.  I'm pretty sure this can be improved (one idea is to buffer results to reduce USB packetization delays), but there's other functionality that I need to finish first.

BTW -- the software is open source and on github at https://github.com/TAPR/TICC , so I welcome anyone who wants to work on it.  Bug fixes are gladly accepted, and if you're looking for work to do, I could use a volunteer to work on a couple of areas, most critically finishing a UI that will allow the user to set operating parameters.

John

On 11/24/2016 02:40 AM, Anders Wallin wrote: Nice work!
On the website in the introduction you mention 22ps single-shot
time-stamping on the 5370A/B.
I think it's well established that the 53230A does about 11-12 ps for
time-intervals, which corresponds to about 9 ps single-channel. see for
example:
http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/53230A_PPS_skew.png

Anders

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Peter Vince petervince1952@gmail.com
wrote:

Fantastic John - well done!  Yes, I'll definitely put an order in as soon
as possible.

Regards,

Peter  (G8ZZR, London)

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On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:

Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it

From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.

With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires no
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!

The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)

I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.

There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC

The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.

As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.

I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.

John

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

 Hi John,

I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it

 From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
 To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
 Cc
 Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
 Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
 Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
 either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
 bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
 frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
 commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
 somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
 4x10e-11.

 With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
 counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
 based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
 noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
 but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
 calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!

 The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
 means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
 inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
 time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
 measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
 data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
 capability yet.)

 I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
 a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
 showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
 there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
 there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.

 There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC

 The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
 https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
 but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
 currently ugly and very much a work in process.

 As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
 finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
 turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
 tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.

 I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
 information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
 pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
 to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
 pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
 that in mind.

 John

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.