JA
John Ackermann N8UR
Sun, Nov 27, 2016 3:04 PM
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and
particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us
increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp
incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The
stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz
reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab
or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software
knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal
measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after
unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also
output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between
the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common
timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it
can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a
two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output
both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow
three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz
reference.
John
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Without doing a bunch of actual work I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
lazy I’ll just guess ….
There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
be comparing to a “house standard”. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
use both inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
input setups ….
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:
Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and
particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us
increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp
incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The
stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz
reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab
or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software
knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal
measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after
unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also
output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between
the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common
timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it
can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a
two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output
both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow
three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz
reference.
John
----
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> Without doing a bunch of actual *work* I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
> lazy I’ll just guess ….
>
> There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
> be comparing to a “house standard”. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
> the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
> edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
> a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
> do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
>
> The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
> use *both* inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
>
> Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
> input setups ….
>
> Bob
>
>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok <timeok@timeok.it> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>> I have planned to buy two TICC.
>> An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
>> and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
>> Luciano
>> www.timeok.it
>>
>>
>> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
>> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
>> Cc
>> Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
>> Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
>> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
>> either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
>> bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
>> frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
>> commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
>> somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
>> 4x10e-11.
>>
>> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
>> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
>> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
>> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
>> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
>> 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
>> calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>>
>> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
>> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
>> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
>> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
>> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
>> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
>> 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
>> capability yet.)
>>
>> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
>> a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
>> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
>> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
>> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>>
>> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>>
>> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
>> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
>> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
>> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>>
>> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
>> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
>> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
>> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>>
>> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
>> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
>> pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
>> to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
>> pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
>> that in mind.
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
BC
Bob Camp
Sun, Nov 27, 2016 5:26 PM
Hi
Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
John
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Without doing a bunch of actual work I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
lazy I’ll just guess ….
There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
use both inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
input setups ….
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:
Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires no
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
Bob
> On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>
> Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
>
> Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
>
> So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
>
> You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
>
> If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
>
> And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
>
> John
> ----
>
> On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Without doing a bunch of actual *work* I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
>> lazy I’ll just guess ….
>>
>> There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
>> be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
>> the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
>> edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
>> a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
>> do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
>>
>> The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
>> use *both* inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
>>
>> Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
>> input setups ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok <timeok@timeok.it> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> I have planned to buy two TICC.
>>> An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
>>> and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
>>> Luciano
>>> www.timeok.it
>>>
>>>
>>> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
>>> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Cc
>>> Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
>>> Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
>>> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
>>> either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
>>> bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
>>> frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
>>> commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
>>> somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
>>> 4x10e-11.
>>>
>>> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
>>> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
>>> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
>>> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
>>> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
>>> 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
>>> calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>>>
>>> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
>>> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
>>> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
>>> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
>>> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
>>> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
>>> 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
>>> capability yet.)
>>>
>>> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
>>> a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
>>> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
>>> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
>>> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>>>
>>> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>>>
>>> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
>>> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
>>> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
>>> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>>>
>>> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
>>> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
>>> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
>>> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>>>
>>> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
>>> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
>>> pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
>>> to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
>>> pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
>>> that in mind.
>>>
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
JA
John Ackermann N8UR
Mon, Nov 28, 2016 12:18 AM
Hi Bob --
It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an
external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to
simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter
in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a
worthwhile experiment.
I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm
pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds
given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's
within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
(Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because
there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to
the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should
align within one 10 MHz tick.)
John
On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
John
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Without doing a bunch of actual work I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
lazy I’ll just guess ….
There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
use both inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
input setups ….
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:
Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Bob --
It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an
external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to
simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter
in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a
worthwhile experiment.
I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm
pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds
given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's
within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
(Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because
there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to
the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should
align within one 10 MHz tick.)
John
----
On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
>
> How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
> the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
> the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
>
> Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
>
> Bob
>
>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
>>
>> Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
>>
>> So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
>>
>> You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
>>
>> If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
>>
>> And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
>>
>> John
>> ----
>>
>> On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Without doing a bunch of actual *work* I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
>>> lazy I’ll just guess ….
>>>
>>> There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
>>> be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
>>> the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
>>> edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
>>> a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
>>> do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
>>>
>>> The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
>>> use *both* inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
>>>
>>> Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
>>> input setups ….
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok <timeok@timeok.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> I have planned to buy two TICC.
>>>> An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
>>>> and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
>>>> Luciano
>>>> www.timeok.it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
>>>> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> Cc
>>>> Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
>>>> Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
>>>> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
>>>> either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
>>>> bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
>>>> frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
>>>> commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
>>>> somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
>>>> 4x10e-11.
>>>>
>>>> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
>>>> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
>>>> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
>>>> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
>>>> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
>>>> 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
>>>> calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>>>>
>>>> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
>>>> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
>>>> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
>>>> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
>>>> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
>>>> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
>>>> 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
>>>> capability yet.)
>>>>
>>>> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
>>>> a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
>>>> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
>>>> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
>>>> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>>>>
>>>> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>>>>
>>>> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
>>>> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
>>>> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
>>>> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>>>>
>>>> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
>>>> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
>>>> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
>>>> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>>>>
>>>> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
>>>> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
>>>> pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
>>>> to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
>>>> pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
>>>> that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
TV
Tom Van Baak
Mon, Nov 28, 2016 12:58 AM
John,
The PD15 divider that you're using will sync to within 1 PIC instruction. That's sounds good, but the TICC reads down to picoseconds so the 400 ns PIC granularity will look pretty high.
There is another solution. And that is not to sync the h/w or s/w counters at all. You just let them free-run. But you allow a sync mode where the user places a known UTC 1PPS in chA or chB and then the Arduino takes a reading. That number is then stored and subtracted from all subsequent readings that the Arduino outputs. It's better than a h/w sync because it allows you to sync to the ps level. And it also takes into account any propagation delays on your board, connector and cables.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ackermann N8UR" jra@febo.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Hi Bob --
It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an
external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to
simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter
in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a
worthwhile experiment.
I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm
pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds
given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's
within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
(Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because
there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to
the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should
align within one 10 MHz tick.)
John
On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
John
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Without doing a bunch of actual work I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
lazy I’ll just guess ….
There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
use both inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
input setups ….
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:
Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
John,
The PD15 divider that you're using will sync to within 1 PIC instruction. That's sounds good, but the TICC reads down to picoseconds so the 400 ns PIC granularity will look pretty high.
There is another solution. And that is not to sync the h/w or s/w counters at all. You just let them free-run. But you allow a sync mode where the user places a known UTC 1PPS in chA or chB and then the Arduino takes a reading. That number is then stored and subtracted from all subsequent readings that the Arduino outputs. It's better than a h/w sync because it allows you to sync to the ps level. And it also takes into account any propagation delays on your board, connector and cables.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ackermann N8UR" <jra@febo.com>
To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Hi Bob --
It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an
external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to
simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter
in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a
worthwhile experiment.
I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm
pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds
given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's
within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
(Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because
there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to
the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should
align within one 10 MHz tick.)
John
----
On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
>
> How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
> the data is “in sync” with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
> the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
>
> Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
>
> Bob
>
>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
>>
>> Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
>>
>> So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
>>
>> You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
>>
>> If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
>>
>> And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
>>
>> John
>> ----
>>
>> On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Without doing a bunch of actual *work* I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
>>> lazy I’ll just guess ….
>>>
>>> There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
>>> be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
>>> the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
>>> edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
>>> a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
>>> do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
>>>
>>> The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
>>> use *both* inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
>>>
>>> Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
>>> input setups ….
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok <timeok@timeok.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> I have planned to buy two TICC.
>>>> An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
>>>> and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
>>>> Luciano
>>>> www.timeok.it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
>>>> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> Cc
>>>> Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
>>>> Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
>>>> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
>>>> either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
>>>> bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
>>>> frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
>>>> commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
>>>> somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
>>>> 4x10e-11.
>>>>
>>>> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
>>>> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
>>>> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
>>>> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
>>>> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
>>>> 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
>>>> calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>>>>
>>>> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
>>>> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
>>>> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
>>>> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
>>>> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
>>>> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
>>>> 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
>>>> capability yet.)
>>>>
>>>> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
>>>> a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
>>>> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
>>>> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
>>>> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>>>>
>>>> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>>>>
>>>> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
>>>> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
>>>> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
>>>> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>>>>
>>>> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
>>>> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
>>>> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
>>>> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>>>>
>>>> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
>>>> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
>>>> pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
>>>> to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
>>>> pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
>>>> that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
BC
Bob Camp
Mon, Nov 28, 2016 1:09 AM
Hi
At least in my “unconstrained by reality” state, my thought is that the “sync” PPS signal is there all the time.
You are as much doing a phase lock as a sync. The “PLL” only has a phase resolution of 100 ns so once
it’s running, not much happens. Yes, this might get you into all sorts of issues like some D-FF’s for early / late
detection. Things are getting more complex ……
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:18 PM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Hi Bob --
It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a worthwhile experiment.
I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
(Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should align within one 10 MHz tick.)
John
On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
the data is “in sync� with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
John
On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Without doing a bunch of actual work I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
lazy I’ll just guess ….
There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
use both inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
input setups ….
Bob
On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok timeok@timeok.it wrote:
Hi John,
I have planned to buy two TICC.
An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires no
calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
At least in my “unconstrained by reality” state, my thought is that the “sync” PPS signal is there all the time.
You are as much doing a phase lock as a sync. The “PLL” only has a phase resolution of 100 ns so once
it’s running, not much happens. Yes, this might get you into all sorts of issues like some D-FF’s for early / late
detection. Things are getting more complex ……
Bob
> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:18 PM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob --
>
> It's certainly possible to synchronize the TICC timescale epoch to an external pulse at startup. The external sync pulse would have to simultaneously reset (a) the picDIV and (b) the coarse (100us) counter in the Arduino. The signals to do that are available, so it's a worthwhile experiment.
>
> I have to think through whether there are any other gotchas but I'm pretty sure that you would not get closer than a few hundred nanoseconds given how closely the picDIV can sync -- I think Tom specifies that it's within 4 clocks, or 400 ns.
>
> (Now, syncing two TICCs to each other is a different matter because there we one unit is master and provides the coarse clock directly to the slave; if both units are run from the same 10 MHz clock they should align within one 10 MHz tick.)
>
> John
> ----
>
> On 11/27/2016 12:26 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok, so the guess was fairly close :)
>>
>> How about a connector to allow an external PPS to reset the internal 10 MHz divider? That way all
>> the data is “in sync� with the house standard. If I want to know that my GPSDO is +32.751 ns off from
>> the house standard, I just look at the data on a terminal program …
>>
>> Or am I missing something really obvious (again)?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 10:04 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good guess. The 10 MHz reference drives all the logic on the board, and particularly the counter that maintains a local timescale in 100us increments; the TDC7200 interpolates between the 100us ticks to stamp incoming events on channel A and/or B with picosecond precision. The stamps on both channels are referenced to the same local timescale.
>>>
>>> Therefore, you can do a measurement of a PPS source against the 10 MHz reference and the resulting timestamp output can be processed by TimeLab or whatever into stability data (the requirement being that the software knows how to deal with timestamps that increment by the nominal measurement rate, e.g., 1 second per measurement for PPS data).
>>>
>>> So with PPS from GPSDO "A" on channel A the timestamp output after unwrapping will show the phase of A vs. 10 MHz.
>>>
>>> You can add PPS from GPSDO "B" on channel B and the TICC will also output timestamps of B vs. the 10 MHz source.
>>>
>>> If you want, you can subtract A from B to get the time interval between the two GPSDO, since both timestamp measurements are against a common timescale. The TICC has a mode to output the (B-A) difference, so it can act as either a traditional time interval counter, or as a two-channel timestamping counter.
>>>
>>> And as noted in my other message to Luciano, the TICC can also output both timestamp and time interval data simultaneously to allow three-corner-hat measurements of (A-C, B-C, B-A) where C is the 10 MHz reference.
>>>
>>> John
>>> ----
>>>
>>> On 11/27/2016 09:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Without doing a bunch of actual *work* I’m not sure what is inside the guts of the board. Being
>>>> lazy I’ll just guess ….
>>>>
>>>> There appears to be a 10 MHz time base input and a pair of measurement inputs. In a lot us will
>>>> be comparing to a “house standard�. That standard has a pps output that is related directly to
>>>> the 10 MHz reference. If I can uniquely identify one edge (out of 10 million edges) as the right
>>>> edge, I can use the 10 MHz as my pps reference. Put another way, I don’t really need to measure
>>>> a pps input from the house standard if I’m already locked up in phase to the 10 MHz. All I need to
>>>> do is to tag an edge / reset a counter.
>>>>
>>>> The advantage of this is that I may not need another fancy TDC chip to set up the reference. I can
>>>> use *both* inputs for DUT’s rather than using one as a reference.
>>>>
>>>> Part of the reason I’m guessing this would work is the claim that boards can be stacked for multiple
>>>> input setups ….
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:36 AM, timeok <timeok@timeok.it> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>> I have planned to buy two TICC.
>>>>> An interesting feature would be to be able to do two simultaneous acquisitions,
>>>>> and Timelab as real time display,using the two indipendent input channels and the 10Mhz clock as single reference.
>>>>> Luciano
>>>>> www.timeok.it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
>>>>> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> Cc
>>>>> Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
>>>>> Subject [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
>>>>> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult. They require
>>>>> either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators that are typically a
>>>>> bunch of analog components mixed with black magic and stirred by
>>>>> frequent calibration. The very best single-shot resolution that's been
>>>>> commercially available is 22 picoseconds in the HP 5370A/B, with jitter
>>>>> somewhat more than that. My 5370B has an one-second noise ADEV of about
>>>>> 4x10e-11.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
>>>>> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
>>>>> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
>>>>> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
>>>>> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a Mega
>>>>> 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires *no*
>>>>> calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>>>>>
>>>>> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
>>>>> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
>>>>> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
>>>>> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
>>>>> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
>>>>> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4, 6,
>>>>> 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
>>>>> capability yet.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot of
>>>>> a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
>>>>> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
>>>>> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
>>>>> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>>>>>
>>>>> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
>>>>> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
>>>>> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
>>>>> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>>>>>
>>>>> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
>>>>> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
>>>>> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
>>>>> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
>>>>> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discount for
>>>>> pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front cost
>>>>> to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us. Getting
>>>>> pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you to keep
>>>>> that in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
JA
John Ackermann N8UR
Wed, Dec 7, 2016 7:45 PM
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
- We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based on the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
one-second noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting on a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs only a couple of ounces, requires
no calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure one or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of one input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted on an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
* We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based on the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
one-second noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting on a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs only a couple of ounces, requires
*no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure one or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of one input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted on an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
CH
Christopher Hoover
Thu, Dec 8, 2016 4:36 AM
Thanks, John! Just ordered two and looking forward to receiving it. 73,
Christopher de AI6KG
On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:45 AM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield mounted
on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software loaded.
Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb to
produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment to our
contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated to help
recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a $10
discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes the price
$180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
- We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based on the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
one-second noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting on a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs only a couple of ounces, requires
no calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure one or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of one input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted on an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Thanks, John! Just ordered two and looking forward to receiving it. 73,
Christopher de AI6KG
On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:45 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
> I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
> timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
> contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
> sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield mounted
> on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software loaded.
> Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
>
> As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb to
> produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment to our
> contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated to help
> recover our cash flow.
>
> The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
> compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a $10
> discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes the price
> $180 plus shipping.
>
> You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
> * We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
> seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
> development.
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
>
> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
> They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
> that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
> magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
> resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
> the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
> noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
>
> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
> based on the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
> one-second noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting on a
> Mega 2560 controller) that weighs only a couple of ounces, requires
> *no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>
> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
> means it can measure one or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
> time interval measurement of one input against the other. It can also
> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
> 6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
> capability yet.)
>
> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
> of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>
> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>
> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>
> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
> turn-key system: TICC mounted on an Arduino with software loaded and
> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>
> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
> for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
> cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
> Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
> to keep that in mind.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
T
timeok
Thu, Dec 8, 2016 1:09 PM
Hi John,
a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
How are connected the extra TICC boards?
Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
thanks,
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
- We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
no calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
Hi John,
a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
How are connected the extra TICC boards?
Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
thanks,
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
* We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
*no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
JA
John Ackermann N8UR
Thu, Dec 8, 2016 2:18 PM
Hi Luciano --
The expanded-channels scenario would use one TICC/Arduino pair for each
set of channels. It would require much redesign to stack multiple TICCs
on a single Arduino, and I don't think one board would have the power to
handle it.
What I envisioned would be a set of TICC/Arduinos each putting their
data on USB, and then something like a RPi receiving the multiple USB
data streams and serving as a control unit that might multiplex the data
onto a single ethernet stream, or do processing/storage itself.
At this point, the TICC board includes the connections to allow multiple
boards to be synchronized but we haven't implemented the full system yet
-- in part because until now there are only 4 working TICCs in the
world, and they are in 3 locations!
John
On 12/8/2016 8:09 AM, timeok wrote:
Hi John,
a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
How are connected the extra TICC boards?
Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
thanks,
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
* We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
*no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi Luciano --
The expanded-channels scenario would use one TICC/Arduino pair for each
set of channels. It would require much redesign to stack multiple TICCs
on a single Arduino, and I don't think one board would have the power to
handle it.
What I envisioned would be a set of TICC/Arduinos each putting their
data on USB, and then something like a RPi receiving the multiple USB
data streams and serving as a control unit that might multiplex the data
onto a single ethernet stream, or do processing/storage itself.
At this point, the TICC board includes the connections to allow multiple
boards to be synchronized but we haven't implemented the full system yet
-- in part because until now there are only 4 working TICCs in the
world, and they are in 3 locations!
John
----
On 12/8/2016 8:09 AM, timeok wrote:
>
> Hi John,
> a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
> How are connected the extra TICC boards?
> Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
> thanks,
> Luciano
> www.timeok.it
>
>
> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
> Cc
> Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
> Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
> I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
> timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
> contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
> sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
> mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
> loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
>
> As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
> to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
> to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
> to help recover our cash flow.
>
> The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
> compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
> $10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
> the price $180 plus shipping.
>
> You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
> * We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
> seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
> development.
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
>
> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
> They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
> that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
> magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
> resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
> the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
> noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
>
> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
> Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
> *no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>
> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
> 6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
> capability yet.)
>
> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
> of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>
> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>
> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>
> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>
> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
> for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
> cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
> Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
> to keep that in mind.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
T
timeok
Thu, Dec 8, 2016 3:39 PM
John,
Ok I know the development job is very hard with a lot of rework and time spending.
I will try your basic unit but I hope you will develop a "multiboard" scenario with a single USB to send the real time data to Timelab.
Thank you again to you and the group for what you are doing for us.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Thu, 8 Dec 2016 09:18:51 -0500
Subject Re: [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
Hi Luciano --
The expanded-channels scenario would use one TICC/Arduino pair for each
set of channels. It would require much redesign to stack multiple TICCs
on a single Arduino, and I don't think one board would have the power to
handle it.
What I envisioned would be a set of TICC/Arduinos each putting their
data on USB, and then something like a RPi receiving the multiple USB
data streams and serving as a control unit that might multiplex the data
onto a single ethernet stream, or do processing/storage itself.
At this point, the TICC board includes the connections to allow multiple
boards to be synchronized but we haven't implemented the full system yet
-- in part because until now there are only 4 working TICCs in the
world, and they are in 3 locations!
John
On 12/8/2016 8:09 AM, timeok wrote:
Hi John,
a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
How are connected the extra TICC boards?
Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
thanks,
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
to help recover our cash flow.
The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
$10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
the price $180 plus shipping.
You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
Thanks!
John
- We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
development.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
From: John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com
Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
no calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
capability yet.)
I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
but there are still features to add and a lot of cleanup to do; it's
currently ugly and very much a work in process.
As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
to keep that in mind.
John
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and follow the instructions there.
John,
Ok I know the development job is very hard with a lot of rework and time spending.
I will try your basic unit but I hope you will develop a "multiboard" scenario with a single USB to send the real time data to Timelab.
Thank you again to you and the group for what you are doing for us.
Luciano
www.timeok.it
From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
To time-nuts@febo.com
Cc
Date Thu, 8 Dec 2016 09:18:51 -0500
Subject Re: [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
Hi Luciano --
The expanded-channels scenario would use one TICC/Arduino pair for each
set of channels. It would require much redesign to stack multiple TICCs
on a single Arduino, and I don't think one board would have the power to
handle it.
What I envisioned would be a set of TICC/Arduinos each putting their
data on USB, and then something like a RPi receiving the multiple USB
data streams and serving as a control unit that might multiplex the data
onto a single ethernet stream, or do processing/storage itself.
At this point, the TICC board includes the connections to allow multiple
boards to be synchronized but we haven't implemented the full system yet
-- in part because until now there are only 4 working TICCs in the
world, and they are in 3 locations!
John
----
On 12/8/2016 8:09 AM, timeok wrote:
>
> Hi John,
> a question: In the draft operating manual is write is possible to use 2, 4 ,6 etc. input using multiple (1,2,3) TICC.
> How are connected the extra TICC boards?
> Is it possible a single Arduino drive multiple boards or each board is connected to an Arduino processor?
> thanks,
> Luciano
> www.timeok.it
>
>
> From "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
> To "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
> Cc
> Date Wed, 7 Dec 2016 14:45:17 -0500
> Subject [time-nuts] TICC Timestamping / Time Interval Counter -- Available to Order
> I'm happy to report that TAPR is now accepting orders for the TICC
> timestamping / time interval counter. We've placed an order with the
> contract manufacturer and expect to have finished product ready to ship
> sometime in February. The TICC system will include the TICC shield
> mounted on an Arduino Mega 2560 compatible processor, with TICC software
> loaded. Each system will be tested for function before shipping.
>
> As I mentioned in my original email, TAPR is going a bit out on a limb
> to produce the TICC, and we have to make a significant up-front payment
> to our contract manufacturer. So, early orders are very much appreciated
> to help recover our cash flow.
>
> The regular price will be $190 each for the TICC shield with Arduino
> compatible processor,* but to encourage early orders, we're offering a
> $10 discount for orders placed on or before December 21 -- that makes
> the price $180 plus shipping.
>
> You can order from: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
> * We will provide a Sainsmart version of the Arduino Mega 2560 R3. They
> seem to be a reliable supplier and we used these boards for TICC
> development.
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:48:57 -0500
> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
>
> Counters with resolution below 1 nanosecond are difficult.
> They require either outrageous clock speeds, or interpolators
> that are typically a bunch of analog components mixed with black
> magic and stirred by frequent calibration. The very best single-shot
> resolution that's been commercially available is 20 picoseconds in
> the Keysight 53230A and HP 5370A/B. My 5370B has an one-second
> noise ADEV of about 4x10e-11.
>
> With the help of some very talented friends, I've been working on a new
> counter called the "TICC" with <60ps resolution and similar jitter,
> based the Texas Instruments TDC7200 time-to-data-converter chip. The
> noise ADEV is about 7x10e-11, not much worse than the 5370,
> but here's the trick: the TICC is an Arduino shield (mounting a
> Mega 2560 controller) that weighs a couple of ounces, requires
> *no* calibration, and is powered from a USB cable!
>
> The TICC is implemented as a two-channel timestamping counter. That
> means it can measure or two low-frequency (e.g., pulse-per-second)
> inputs against an external 10 MHz reference, or it can do a traditional
> time interval measurement of input against the other. It can also
> measure period, ratio, or any other function of two-channel timestamp
> data. (And by the way -- multiple TICCs can be connected to yield 4,
> 6, 8, or more synchronized channels, though we haven't tested this
> capability yet.)
>
> I've attached a picture of the TICC prototype as well as an ADEV plot
> of a 17+ day run of multiple measurements taken by two TICCs, and also
> showing the TICC noise floor. The good news behind that plot is that
> there are more than 6 million data points behind these results, and
> there was not a single glitch or significant outlier among them.
>
> There's more information available at http://febo.com/pages/TICC
>
> The software is open source (BSD license) and is available at
> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC -- the current version seems be reliable
> but there are still features to add and a *lot* of cleanup to do; it's
> currently ugly and very much a work in process.
>
> As always, I'll be making the TICC available through TAPR. We're still
> finalizing details, but we expect the price to be less than $200 for a
> turn-key system: TICC mounted an Arduino with software loaded and
> tested for basic functionality. We hope to ship the TICC by February.
>
> I'll post a note in a week or two with final price and ordering
> information. As a heads up, we will probably offer a small discoun
> for pre-orders. TAPR is a shoestring non-profit group and the up-front
> cost to manufacture this unit will frankly be a challenge for us.
> Getting pre-orders will help our cash flow significantly, so we ask you
> to keep that in mind.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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