time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

View all threads

I love the smell of tantalum in the morning

TV
Tom Van Baak
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 8:20 PM

Ok, thanks, Chris! Some day I'll learn SMT but I don't think it's wise for me to use a 5071 main board as my first mistake. So I'll follow-up with your generous offer off-list.

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Waldrup
To: Tom Van Baak ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning

Hi Tom,

I'm a SMT rework technician for a large satcom and defense company.
I have a shop at home too and all the equipment to repair this if I can be provided with the replacement cap.
Please let me know if I can be of help.

Chris
KD4PBJ

On Nov 5, 2016, at 14:12, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy?

Thanks,
/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm

<A1-mother-6.jpg>
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Ok, thanks, Chris! Some day I'll learn SMT but I don't think it's wise for me to use a 5071 main board as my first mistake. So I'll follow-up with your generous offer off-list. /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Waldrup To: Tom Van Baak ; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning Hi Tom, I'm a SMT rework technician for a large satcom and defense company. I have a shop at home too and all the equipment to repair this if I can be provided with the replacement cap. Please let me know if I can be of help. Chris KD4PBJ On Nov 5, 2016, at 14:12, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy? Thanks, /tvb [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm <A1-mother-6.jpg> _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
BC
Bob Camp
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 8:24 PM

Hi

A lot depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of he copper
also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a pre-heat process.
There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various “frame and
lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches.

If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the solder quickly (10 seconds
or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you should have the part
off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when soldering. 4 seconds is quite
a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever ….

Bob

On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy?

Thanks,
/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm
<A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi A *lot* depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of he copper also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a pre-heat process. There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various “frame and lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches. If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the solder quickly (10 seconds or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you should have the part off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when soldering. 4 seconds is quite a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever …. Bob > On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: > > See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. > > Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy? > > Thanks, > /tvb > > [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes > [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm > <A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
TM
Tom Miller
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 8:37 PM

I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate
pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install
the new part.

Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Camp" kb8tq@n1k.org
To: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@leapsecond.com; "Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning

Hi

A lot depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of
he copper
also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a
pre-heat process.
There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various
“frame and
lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches.

If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the
solder quickly (10 seconds
or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you
should have the part
off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when
soldering. 4 seconds is quite
a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever ….

Bob

On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few
boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the
board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I
don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the
very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse
to buy?

Thanks,
/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm
<A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install the new part. Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <kb8tq@n1k.org> To: "Tom Van Baak" <tvb@leapsecond.com>; "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning > Hi > > A *lot* depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of > he copper > also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a > pre-heat process. > There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various > “frame and > lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches. > > If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the > solder quickly (10 seconds > or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you > should have the part > off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when > soldering. 4 seconds is quite > a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever …. > > Bob > >> On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: >> >> See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few >> boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the >> board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I >> don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. >> >> Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the >> very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse >> to buy? >> >> Thanks, >> /tvb >> >> [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes >> [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm >> <A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
AB
Andrea Baldoni
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 8:49 PM

On Sat, Nov 05, 2016 at 12:12:18PM -0700, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to
the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good
excuse to buy?

Hello Tom.
I do this kind of repairs quite often and as you have already read from others,
almost every method like hot air, hot tweezers and two irons is suitable.

However, if you have not previous experience of smd reworking and, being
lucky that the component has only two leads, if you can have someone who
will help you and there is enough clearance around the components, I suggest
you use two irons of normal power (> 50W) with flat tip.

Hot air is a much better way to do this work, but it's also more risky:
the temperature and air flux should be right (too low and you will heat too
much everything before desoldering the component, too high and you do the same).
You can end up with melted plastic parts in other components around the area.
In some cases when sensitive components are very near, I build little fences
out of sheet metal to lay on board around the component, letting just the space
to pull up it with tweezers.

To solder back, clean the pads with solder wick, then with some form of
liquid cleaner to remove traces of rosin (I use alcohol, or thinner in some
stubborn cases). Hold the component in position pushing down to the board and
solder it manually at the sides. Forget to use SMD paste and hot air for
soldering. This has not any sense with parts so big and with only two pins
and it's trickier than desoldering about temperature and airflow...

There is another thing to look at. In some process, mainly time ago, the SMD
components were glued before soldering, so the component, even if solder is
already melt, need some force to be pulled up.

Best regards,
Andrea Baldoni

On Sat, Nov 05, 2016 at 12:12:18PM -0700, Tom Van Baak wrote: > Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to > the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good > excuse to buy? Hello Tom. I do this kind of repairs quite often and as you have already read from others, almost every method like hot air, hot tweezers and two irons is suitable. However, if you have not previous experience of smd reworking and, being lucky that the component has only two leads, if you can have someone who will help you and there is enough clearance around the components, I suggest you use two irons of normal power (> 50W) with flat tip. Hot air is a much better way to do this work, but it's also more risky: the temperature and air flux should be right (too low and you will heat too much everything before desoldering the component, too high and you do the same). You can end up with melted plastic parts in other components around the area. In some cases when sensitive components are very near, I build little fences out of sheet metal to lay on board around the component, letting just the space to pull up it with tweezers. To solder back, clean the pads with solder wick, then with some form of liquid cleaner to remove traces of rosin (I use alcohol, or thinner in some stubborn cases). Hold the component in position pushing down to the board and solder it manually at the sides. Forget to use SMD paste and hot air for soldering. This has not any sense with parts so big and with only two pins and it's trickier than desoldering about temperature and airflow... There is another thing to look at. In some process, mainly time ago, the SMD components were glued before soldering, so the component, even if solder is already melt, need some force to be pulled up. Best regards, Andrea Baldoni
PS
paul swed
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 10:26 PM

So much information from so many that have obviously run into the smell of
a burnt part.
I do the cut the part to pieces and unsolder each leg. Also the 2 iron
approach.
The absolute goal, do not damage the board.
I have a hot air station also and much like the comments made not impressed.
I did grab a scrap board to play with as I was learning.
Since your cap looks like it already split in half 50% of the jobs done.
As everyone focuses on the soldering part. The damaged board is equally
critical.
The stuff in tantalums is nasty. I clean the whole area with alcohol. And
at times actually carve out some of the carbon if I can measure some level
of resistance from each trace to the center point.
Your problem looks simple enough Tom.
Just remember this. I hate caps. But have received some of my best
equipment because they fail for $/pound. Kind of a love hate thing.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11147@verizon.net wrote:

I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate
pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install
the new part.

Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters.

Tom

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" kb8tq@n1k.org
To: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@leapsecond.com; "Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning

Hi

A lot depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of
he copper
also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a
pre-heat process.
There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various
“frame and
lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches.

If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the
solder quickly (10 seconds
or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you
should have the part
off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when
soldering. 4 seconds is quite
a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever ….

Bob

On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a
few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the
board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I
don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the
very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to
buy?

Thanks,
/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm
<A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

So much information from so many that have obviously run into the smell of a burnt part. I do the cut the part to pieces and unsolder each leg. Also the 2 iron approach. The absolute goal, do not damage the board. I have a hot air station also and much like the comments made not impressed. I did grab a scrap board to play with as I was learning. Since your cap looks like it already split in half 50% of the jobs done. As everyone focuses on the soldering part. The damaged board is equally critical. The stuff in tantalums is nasty. I clean the whole area with alcohol. And at times actually carve out some of the carbon if I can measure some level of resistance from each trace to the center point. Your problem looks simple enough Tom. Just remember this. I hate caps. But have received some of my best equipment because they fail for $/pound. Kind of a love hate thing. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote: > I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate > pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install > the new part. > > Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters. > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <kb8tq@n1k.org> > To: "Tom Van Baak" <tvb@leapsecond.com>; "Discussion of precise time and > frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning > > > Hi >> >> A *lot* depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of >> he copper >> also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a >> pre-heat process. >> There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various >> “frame and >> lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches. >> >> If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the >> solder quickly (10 seconds >> or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you >> should have the part >> off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when >> soldering. 4 seconds is quite >> a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever …. >> >> Bob >> >> On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: >>> >>> See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a >>> few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the >>> board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I >>> don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. >>> >>> Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the >>> very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to >>> buy? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> /tvb >>> >>> [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes >>> [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm >>> <A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
D
David
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 11:38 PM

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 20:57:11 +0100, you wrote:

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy?

Now, for these caps, you can use a normal soldering-iron without too
much trouble, but I strongly recommend pre-heating the board with a
hot-air gun.

The trick is to pre-heat the board widely so it becomes hot, but not
enough to melt any solder. As you now apply your soldering iron, the
heat-transfer won't be as large as if you had a room-temperature board,
simply because the lower temperature gradient.
The effect is that your heating up goes quicker and that part of the
board won't experience excess heat for too long.

I have never had a problem removing surface mount parts like that with
just a single soldering iron.  If access is good so that a large heat
capacity tip can be applied, then each solder joint can be heated up
very quickly preventing damage to the board.

Through hole parts on multilayer boards which have a high heat
capacity are a different manner.

Another trick I use is to solder new solder onto the joints. This breaks
through the oxide layer, which is a poor heat conductor. I solder onto
the joints and let them cool. Then I come back again and now the
soldering iron melts it all up nicely.

On newer boards this is also a great way to dilute the lead free
solder lowering the melting point making removal easier without
damaging the board.

Add some leaded solder and flux to each joint, then remove most of the
solder from each joint with braid, and then a little heat will allow
each side of the part to pop off.

I still do SMD with my Weller WECP-20, but it's not optimal.
At work we moved the otherwise so high valued (over-valued) Metcal to
the side as the new JBC stations is much better. Metcal's doesn't keep
the temperature good enough and the new JBCs is beeter. Metcal's also
have a failure-mode in their tips which makes them break way to early.
There exist replacement tips which is in fact better than the original.

So, if you need an excuse to buy a new toy, look at the JBC-stuff:
http://www.jbctools.com/

However, I would probably be able to replace that cap before your get
your new and shiny toy on the table.

Cheers,
Magnus

I still use my ancient Weller Magnestat irons but have quite a
collection of tips including my overpowered vacuum desoldering head.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 20:57:11 +0100, you wrote: >> Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy? > >Now, for these caps, you can use a normal soldering-iron without too >much trouble, but I strongly recommend pre-heating the board with a >hot-air gun. > >The trick is to pre-heat the board widely so it becomes hot, but not >enough to melt any solder. As you now apply your soldering iron, the >heat-transfer won't be as large as if you had a room-temperature board, >simply because the lower temperature gradient. >The effect is that your heating up goes quicker and that part of the >board won't experience excess heat for too long. I have never had a problem removing surface mount parts like that with just a single soldering iron. If access is good so that a large heat capacity tip can be applied, then each solder joint can be heated up very quickly preventing damage to the board. Through hole parts on multilayer boards which have a high heat capacity are a different manner. >Another trick I use is to solder new solder onto the joints. This breaks >through the oxide layer, which is a poor heat conductor. I solder onto >the joints and let them cool. Then I come back again and now the >soldering iron melts it all up nicely. On newer boards this is also a great way to dilute the lead free solder lowering the melting point making removal easier without damaging the board. Add some leaded solder and flux to each joint, then remove most of the solder from each joint with braid, and then a little heat will allow each side of the part to pop off. >I still do SMD with my Weller WECP-20, but it's not optimal. >At work we moved the otherwise so high valued (over-valued) Metcal to >the side as the new JBC stations is much better. Metcal's doesn't keep >the temperature good enough and the new JBCs is beeter. Metcal's also >have a failure-mode in their tips which makes them break way to early. >There exist replacement tips which is in fact better than the original. > >So, if you need an excuse to buy a new toy, look at the JBC-stuff: >http://www.jbctools.com/ > >However, I would probably be able to replace that cap before your get >your new and shiny toy on the table. > >Cheers, >Magnus I still use my ancient Weller Magnestat irons but have quite a collection of tips including my overpowered vacuum desoldering head.
IS
Ian Stirling
Sat, Nov 5, 2016 11:54 PM

On 11/05/2016 03:12 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy?

Tom, I used the obvious but never read about using two soldering irons,

invented it myself, or co-discovered.

Also, a recent addition that makes SMT so easy, the title of the manual is,
"Instruction Manual for SE400, SE400-LED,  Long Working Distance Stereo Microscope",
about $200.

With a working distance of nine inches or so, it beats the pants off my
previous magnifier, Optivisor 10x where I have to have my face less than two
inches from the soldering area.

.. got the microscope from description from W7ZOI web site.
http://w7zoi.net/micscope.html

Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR

On 11/05/2016 03:12 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to buy? Tom, I used the obvious but never read about using two soldering irons, invented it myself, or co-discovered. Also, a recent addition that makes SMT so easy, the title of the manual is, "Instruction Manual for SE400, SE400-LED, Long Working Distance Stereo Microscope", about $200. With a working distance of nine inches or so, it beats the pants off my previous magnifier, Optivisor 10x where I have to have my face less than two inches from the soldering area. .. got the microscope from description from W7ZOI web site. http://w7zoi.net/micscope.html Ian, G4ICV, AB2GR --
SS
Scott Stobbe
Sun, Nov 6, 2016 2:00 AM

For through hole parts sure, but I would not recommend that on SMD parts,
the copper foil of a little pad is pretty easy to tear off and it's a royal
pain if you have to mount a device missing some of its landing pads.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11147@verizon.net wrote:

I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate
pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install
the new part.

Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters.

Tom

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" kb8tq@n1k.org
To: "Tom Van Baak" tvb@leapsecond.com; "Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning

Hi

A lot depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of
he copper
also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a
pre-heat process.
There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various
“frame and
lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches.

If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the
solder quickly (10 seconds
or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you
should have the part
off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when
soldering. 4 seconds is quite
a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever ….

Bob

On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a
few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the
board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I
don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the
very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to
buy?

Thanks,
/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm
<A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

For through hole parts sure, but I would not recommend that on SMD parts, the copper foil of a little pad is pretty easy to tear off and it's a royal pain if you have to mount a device missing some of its landing pads. On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote: > I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate > pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install > the new part. > > Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters. > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <kb8tq@n1k.org> > To: "Tom Van Baak" <tvb@leapsecond.com>; "Discussion of precise time and > frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2016 4:24 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I love the smell of tantalum in the morning > > > Hi >> >> A *lot* depends on how many planes there are in that board. The weight of >> he copper >> also maters a bit. If there is enough thermal mass, you will need a >> pre-heat process. >> There are lots of ways to do it ranging from the kitchen oven to various >> “frame and >> lightbulb” setups and on into ever more complex heating approaches. >> >> If the hot tweezers / soldering iron / hot air tool does not reflow the >> solder quickly (10 seconds >> or less) stop. Get a pre-heat setup and try again. With proper heat you >> should have the part >> off in under 4 seconds. People don’t tend to use stopwatches when >> soldering. 4 seconds is quite >> a while on a joint. Ten seconds is pretty much forever …. >> >> Bob >> >> On Nov 5, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote: >>> >>> See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a >>> few boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the >>> board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I >>> don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. >>> >>> Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the >>> very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to >>> buy? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> /tvb >>> >>> [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes >>> [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm >>> <A1-mother-6.jpg>_______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
AZ
Andy ZL3AG
Sun, Nov 6, 2016 2:05 AM

Yes. Unless you're grinding it away with a dremel (which I wouldn't recommend as far as chemical dust is concerned), nibbling away with sidecutters would be trying to force the 2 ends of the component apart. That may be stressing the pads they're soldered to, leading to a possible pad lifting at some stage.

Any of the methods mentioned that heat both ends at the same time - allowing the component to be wiped off the board - would have to be the best, stress-wise.

On 6/11/2016, at 3:00 PM, Scott Stobbe wrote:

For through hole parts sure, but I would not recommend that on SMD parts,
the copper foil of a little pad is pretty easy to tear off and it's a royal
pain if you have to mount a device missing some of its landing pads.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11147@verizon.net wrote:

I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate
pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install
the new part.

Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters.

Tom

Yes. Unless you're grinding it away with a dremel (which I wouldn't recommend as far as chemical dust is concerned), nibbling away with sidecutters would be trying to force the 2 ends of the component apart. That may be stressing the pads they're soldered to, leading to a possible pad lifting at some stage. Any of the methods mentioned that heat both ends at the same time - allowing the component to be wiped off the board - would have to be the best, stress-wise. On 6/11/2016, at 3:00 PM, Scott Stobbe wrote: > For through hole parts sure, but I would not recommend that on SMD parts, > the copper foil of a little pad is pretty easy to tear off and it's a royal > pain if you have to mount a device missing some of its landing pads. > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote: > >> I usually nibble away at the center of the part until it is two separate >> pieces. Then unsolder each piece. Clean the pads off with wick then install >> the new part. >> >> Use a good sharp pair of flush cut side cutters. >> >> Tom >> >>
CH
Christopher Hoover
Sun, Nov 6, 2016 2:55 PM

Ditto.  I use hot tweezers -- metcal talon handpiece, in my case.  There
are other ways to do it if you don't have them.

On Nov 6, 2016 3:21 AM, "jimlux" jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:

On 11/5/16 12:12 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few
boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the
board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I
don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind.

Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the
very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to
buy?

Suitable hot tweezers would do this just fine, for both the removal and
the replacement.

this kind of thing
http://www.weller-toolsus.com/weller-t0051317199-wta-50-twee
zers-smd-desoldering.html
https://www.amazon.com/WMRT-Desoldering-Tweezers-Soldering-
Stations/dp/B000UMMUII

It's what I've used at work, with a wx2021
Here's the complete set:
http://www.weller-toolsus.com/soldering/systems/weller-wx202
1-solder-stat-wxmpms-wxmtms-wdh51-wdh60-120v.html

The tips heat basically instantly. It makes it easy to remove/replace even
tiny stuff, although 0402 is just too small for me.

You need a good magnifier or stereo microscope, and some orange sticks to
hold things in place while you solder, etc.

However, I've been given to understand that there is another superior
brand (on this list.. )

Thanks,

/tvb

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes
[1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Ditto. I use hot tweezers -- metcal talon handpiece, in my case. There are other ways to do it if you don't have them. On Nov 6, 2016 3:21 AM, "jimlux" <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: > On 11/5/16 12:12 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > >> See C13 in the attached photo. I need to replace some blown caps on a few >> boards [1]. In one instance the cap got so hot it melted itself off the >> board. Quiet convenient, actually -- it acts like its own fuse -- but I >> don't think the 5071 designers had that clever feature in mind. >> >> Having not done SMT before, how should I do it with minimal risk to the >> very precious PCB. Or, what equipment should I use this as a good excuse to >> buy? >> >> > Suitable hot tweezers would do this just fine, for both the removal and > the replacement. > > this kind of thing > http://www.weller-toolsus.com/weller-t0051317199-wta-50-twee > zers-smd-desoldering.html > https://www.amazon.com/WMRT-Desoldering-Tweezers-Soldering- > Stations/dp/B000UMMUII > > It's what I've used at work, with a wx2021 > Here's the complete set: > http://www.weller-toolsus.com/soldering/systems/weller-wx202 > 1-solder-stat-wxmpms-wxmtms-wdh51-wdh60-120v.html > > The tips heat basically instantly. It makes it easy to remove/replace even > tiny stuff, although 0402 is just too small for me. > > You need a good magnifier or stereo microscope, and some orange sticks to > hold things in place while you solder, etc. > > > However, I've been given to understand that there is another superior > brand (on this list.. ) > > > > Thanks, >> /tvb >> >> [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078788/quotes >> [1] http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp5071a/A1-mother.htm >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >