Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ -=Bryan=-

From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending > On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: > > Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. > > > http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ > > > > -=Bryan=- > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: > From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. > > Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. > >> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: >> >> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. >> >> >> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ >> >> >> >> -=Bryan=- >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a *lot* of years since the last of the non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily for many years … Bob > On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >> From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, > > Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. > >> >> Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending > > Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. > > There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. > > >> >>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: >>> >>> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. >>> >>> >>> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -=Bryan=- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi, On 03/11/2017 10:56 PM, Bryan _ wrote: > Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. > > > http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ At the bottom is a 1964 U.S. Air Force training film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUZFxMTEss0 Haven't seen that one before. Enjoy. I could use that to toss at my amateur radio students that wants to learn more about crystals than I cover in my lecture for them. I don't like how higher Q is confused with higher frequency stability. As most here should know, it is a bit of a mix-up of two different stability aspects. Cheers, Magnus

On 3/12/17 5:53 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > I don't like how higher Q is confused with higher frequency stability. > As most here should know, it is a bit of a mix-up of two different > stability aspects. > That is indeed a "time-nuts" vs "frequency-nuts" level distinction.

Hi Jim, On 03/12/2017 10:39 PM, jimlux wrote: > On 3/12/17 5:53 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > >> I don't like how higher Q is confused with higher frequency stability. >> As most here should know, it is a bit of a mix-up of two different >> stability aspects. >> > > That is indeed a "time-nuts" vs "frequency-nuts" level distinction. Well, Q does have it's influence on phase-noise and thus ADEV, but doesn't really say much about frequency in regard to temperature stability or drift. Yeah, I'm a bit picky about details like that, and I think others should learn it right. Cheers, Magnus

I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose crystals. Rick N6RK On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing > broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a *lot* of years since the last of the > non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily > for many years … > > Bob > >> On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >>> From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, >> >> Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. >> >>> >>> Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending >> >> Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. >> >> There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. >> >> >>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=Bryan=- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals? -=Bryan=- ________________________________ From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard@karlquist.com> Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose crystals. Rick N6RK On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing > broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a *lot* of years since the last of the > non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily > for many years … > > Bob > >> On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >> On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >>> From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, >> >> Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. >> >>> >>> Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending >> >> Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. >> >> There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. >> >> >>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystals<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> hackaday.com There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- had a collection of ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -=Bryan=- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Hi There also was an intermediate phase between channel frequency -> crystal frequency -> you buy a crystal and synthesizers. My early fun and games at Motorola involved designing TCXO’s and OCXO’s that had non-replicable crystals in them. We shipped them as a fully sealed unit. The compensation on them was very specific to the crystal involved. The assembly was such that replacing the crystal likely broke the part in some way. At the very least it required you to re-weld the case on the TCXO’s. So yes, in this context (as opposed to the market in general) radios based on complete oscillators dominated a *long* time ago. Bob > On Mar 13, 2017, at 3:07 AM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: > > sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals? > > > -=Bryan=- > > > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard@karlquist.com> > Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals > > I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which > was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years > ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or > so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose > crystals. > > Rick N6RK > > On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing >> broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a *lot* of years since the last of the >> non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily >> for many years … >> >> Bob >> >>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>> On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: >>>> From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit, >>> >>> Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later. >>> >>>> >>>> Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending >>> >>> Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around. >>> >>> There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl521@outlook.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/ > [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> > > So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystals<http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/> > hackaday.com > There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- had a collection of ... > > > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -=Bryan=- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.