Empathy List Archives

DR

D. Resor

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 10:30 AM

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the
requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is,
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz
line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

Hello, My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the requirements. What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller. Seen here: http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. jpg The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that setting isn't much better. I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. Does such a thing exist? Thank You Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." --Jonathan Winters

PS

paul swed

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 10:21 PM

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of
numbers of answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are
with a soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched
the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a
squaring circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60
Hz out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to
get the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:30 AM, D. Resor organlists@pacbell.net wrote:

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching
a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the
requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/
TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is,
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz
line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it
synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Donald I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of answers. It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a soldering iron. I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no schematics. If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting. It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring circuit. Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down. Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz out. Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get the 60 Hz. Good luck Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:30 AM, D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> wrote: > Hello, > > > > My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching > a > source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. > > > > The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the > requirements. > > > > What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock > controller. > > Seen here: > http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/ > TempleCitySDADCB1a. > jpg > > > > The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon > here: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 > > > > > > It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections > using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. > > > > This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, > this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in > sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz > line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 > seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it > synchronized. > > > > The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however > that setting isn't much better. > > > > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or > possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > > http://hammondorganservice.com > Hammond USA warranty service > "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they > don't." --Jonathan Winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

TM

Thomas Miller

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 10:49 PM

Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able to suss out how they do the internal reference.

I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy.

There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored.

Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Resor organlists@pacbell.net
To: Time Nuts List time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the
requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is,
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz
line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able to suss out how they do the internal reference. I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy. There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> To: Time Nuts List <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Hello, My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the requirements. What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller. Seen here: http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. jpg The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that setting isn't much better. I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. Does such a thing exist? Thank You Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." --Jonathan Winters _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

AG

Adrian Godwin

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 10:57 PM

There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak -
http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask Tom.

I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit
that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing
the original wall-wart.
It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap surplus
GPSDO.

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:21 PM, paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of
numbers of answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are
with a soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched
the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a
squaring circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60
Hz out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to
get the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:30 AM, D. Resor organlists@pacbell.net wrote:

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while

researching

a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the
requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/
TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12

noon

here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music

selections

using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem

is,

this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it

in

sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's

60Hz

line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it
synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches,

however

that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server

or

possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak - http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask Tom. I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing the original wall-wart. It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap surplus GPSDO. On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:21 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Donald > I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of > numbers of answers. > It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are > with a soldering iron. > I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched > the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no > schematics. > If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting. > It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a > squaring circuit. > Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down. > Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 > Hz out. > Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to > get the 60 Hz. > Good luck > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:30 AM, D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > My first post here. I found this group's user group page while > researching > > a > > source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. > > > > > > > > The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the > > requirements. > > > > > > > > What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock > > controller. > > > > Seen here: > > http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/ > > TempleCitySDADCB1a. > > jpg > > > > > > > > The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 > noon > > here: > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 > > > > > > > > > > > > It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music > selections > > using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. > > > > > > > > This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem > is, > > this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it > in > > sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's > 60Hz > > line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 > > seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it > > synchronized. > > > > > > > > The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, > however > > that setting isn't much better. > > > > > > > > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server > or > > possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. > > > > > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > > > > > > > > Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > > > > http://hammondorganservice.com > > Hammond USA warranty service > > "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they > > don't." --Jonathan Winters > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

TV

Tom Van Baak

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 11:01 PM

Donald,

Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem:

If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz controlled.
Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? How many seconds per week is your limit?
Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead.
You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is.

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Resor" organlists@pacbell.net
To: "Time Nuts List" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the
requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is,
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz
line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Donald, Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem: 1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz controlled. 2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? How many seconds per week is your limit? 3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead. 4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz. > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or > possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is. /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Resor" <organlists@pacbell.net> To: "Time Nuts List" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > Hello, > > > > My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a > source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. > > > > The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the > requirements. > > > > What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock > controller. > > Seen here: > http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. > jpg > > > > The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon > here: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 > > > > > > It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections > using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. > > > > This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, > this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in > sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz > line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 > seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. > > > > The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however > that setting isn't much better. > > > > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or > possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > > http://hammondorganservice.com > Hammond USA warranty service > "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they > don't." --Jonathan Winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

TV

Tom Van Baak

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 11:11 PM

Adrian, et al.

An updated list of PIC dividers:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv-list.htm

Source code and hex files:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/

And, you guessed it, PD60 is the one that divides 10 MHz into 60 Hz (exactly). Documentation and source code:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/pd60.asm

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Godwin" artgodwin@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak -
http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask Tom.

I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit
that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing
the original wall-wart.
It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap surplus
GPSDO.

Adrian, et al. An updated list of PIC dividers: http://leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv-list.htm Source code and hex files: http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/ And, you guessed it, PD60 is the one that divides 10 MHz into 60 Hz (exactly). Documentation and source code: http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/pd60.asm /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Godwin" <artgodwin@gmail.com> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak - > http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask Tom. > > I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit > that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing > the original wall-wart. > It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap surplus > GPSDO.

AG

Adrian Godwin

Sun, Mar 4, 2018 11:24 PM

Donald,

I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume
something that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ?

I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of
chimes, but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't
describe any sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I
would imagine it would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano.

How does the controller you are restoring operate ?

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 11:11 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@leapsecond.com wrote:

Adrian, et al.

An updated list of PIC dividers:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv-list.htm

Source code and hex files:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/

And, you guessed it, PD60 is the one that divides 10 MHz into 60 Hz
(exactly). Documentation and source code:
http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/pd60.asm

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Godwin" artgodwin@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <
time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak -
http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask

Tom.

I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit
that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing
the original wall-wart.
It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap

surplus

GPSDO.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Donald, I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume something that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ? I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of chimes, but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't describe any sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I would imagine it would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano. How does the controller you are restoring operate ? On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 11:11 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@leapsecond.com> wrote: > Adrian, et al. > > An updated list of PIC dividers: > http://leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv-list.htm > > Source code and hex files: > http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/ > > And, you guessed it, PD60 is the one that divides 10 MHz into 60 Hz > (exactly). Documentation and source code: > http://leapsecond.com/pic/src/pd60.asm > > /tvb > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Godwin" <artgodwin@gmail.com> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" < > time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > > > > There is indeed a 60Hz out picdiv from Tom Van Baak - > > http://www.leapsecond.com/pic/picdiv.htm. It's not in that list but ask > Tom. > > > > I've just used one (modified for 50Hz out) to drive a 1A H-bridge circuit > > that supplies a 12V peak-peak square wave to an old LED clock, replacing > > the original wall-wart. > > It works very nicely, and is driven by the 10MHz output of a cheap > surplus > > GPSDO. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

DR

D. Resor

Mon, Mar 5, 2018 1:28 PM

Adrian Goodwin,

Working in reverse here....

Maas-Rowe has been in business since 1922. The son of the founder of the company, Paul Rowe currently president of the company is his golden years.

The DCB1 which was Maas-Rowe's first generation of a digital controller in around 1983 has Westminster chimes, bell tolls for churches, colleges and universities. For instance, Angelus, De Profundis, Change Ringing (Bell Peals), Swinging Bell etc. There were two other generations of this product which followed. The DCBII and DCBIII. All three units use an external bell chime unit with chromatically tuned bell rods with the additional partials needed ground into them.

Here is the external Bell Unit which can connect to a DCBI, DCBII or DCBIII. The Bell unit contains 15 bell rods, and they are divided up into the Low C chord of 3-bells. The rest are divided up into groups of 2-bells.

Maas-Rowe carillon: Close-up of the chimes inside the California Tower at Balboa Park in San Diego

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TnjL_nVz0

The DCBI used 8-track cartridge tapes for the musical selections. The DCBII (discontinued) and DCB3 use a 7 or 25 disc Compact Disk Mechanism for the musical selections.

Maas-Rowe Digital Chronobell demo at First UMC, Benton, Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5fZhTbfoM

Six years ago Maas-Rowe Developed a Digital Sequencer unit which contains up to 25 "Libraries" of musical selections. It also contains the 7 bell voices which Maas-Rowe patented played in "real time" from digital samples.

Seen here:

Digital Carillon Player (DCP) Introduction (Attached to a DCBIII).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUM062-eCoM

In addition Maas-Rowe has manufactured for several decades what is referred to as the Grand Symphonic Carillon. It allows you to play from a keyboard console, and it also can contain their MPR1 and MPR2 unit which has musical selection storage and a sequencer.

A sample of The Grand Symphonic Carillon can be seen here:

Game of Thrones Theme - Balboa Park Carillon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiKcL7yGc0

Here is another demonstration of The Grand Symphonic Carillon

Carillon Bells ASU MCC collaboration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZoMDxPpGyI

The latest model is the Bell Whether Carillon

Maas-Rowe Carillons Bellwether
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DDehZRR3ks

Sorry you asked? 😉

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com On Behalf Of Adrian Godwin
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:25 PM
To: Tom Van Baak tvb@leapsecond.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald,

I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume something that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ?

I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of chimes, but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't describe any sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I would imagine it would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano.

How does the controller you are restoring operate ?

Adrian Goodwin, Working in reverse here.... Maas-Rowe has been in business since 1922. The son of the founder of the company, Paul Rowe currently president of the company is his golden years. The DCB1 which was Maas-Rowe's first generation of a digital controller in around 1983 has Westminster chimes, bell tolls for churches, colleges and universities. For instance, Angelus, De Profundis, Change Ringing (Bell Peals), Swinging Bell etc. There were two other generations of this product which followed. The DCBII and DCBIII. All three units use an external bell chime unit with chromatically tuned bell rods with the additional partials needed ground into them. Here is the external Bell Unit which can connect to a DCBI, DCBII or DCBIII. The Bell unit contains 15 bell rods, and they are divided up into the Low C chord of 3-bells. The rest are divided up into groups of 2-bells. Maas-Rowe carillon: Close-up of the chimes inside the California Tower at Balboa Park in San Diego https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TnjL_nVz0 The DCBI used 8-track cartridge tapes for the musical selections. The DCBII (discontinued) and DCB3 use a 7 or 25 disc Compact Disk Mechanism for the musical selections. Maas-Rowe Digital Chronobell demo at First UMC, Benton, Arkansas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5fZhTbfoM Six years ago Maas-Rowe Developed a Digital Sequencer unit which contains up to 25 "Libraries" of musical selections. It also contains the 7 bell voices which Maas-Rowe patented played in "real time" from digital samples. Seen here: Digital Carillon Player (DCP) Introduction (Attached to a DCBIII). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUM062-eCoM In addition Maas-Rowe has manufactured for several decades what is referred to as the Grand Symphonic Carillon. It allows you to play from a keyboard console, and it also can contain their MPR1 and MPR2 unit which has musical selection storage and a sequencer. A sample of The Grand Symphonic Carillon can be seen here: Game of Thrones Theme - Balboa Park Carillon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiKcL7yGc0 Here is another demonstration of The Grand Symphonic Carillon Carillon Bells ASU MCC collaboration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZoMDxPpGyI The latest model is the Bell Whether Carillon Maas-Rowe Carillons Bellwether https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DDehZRR3ks Sorry you asked? 😉 Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of Adrian Godwin Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:25 PM To: Tom Van Baak <tvb@leapsecond.com>; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Donald, I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume something that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ? I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of chimes, but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't describe any sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I would imagine it would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano. How does the controller you are restoring operate ?

DR

D. Resor

Mon, Mar 5, 2018 1:55 PM

I am sure there are master circuit diagrams of the DCB1 but I've never seen them during my visits to the factory. It was explained to me, there are no printed service manuals for the digital product line.

If I have questions the engineer or the owner can answer them. Which I may also need to do. I do know there was work done for an accessory attachable to the DCBIII with the addition of a WWVB receiver or GPS, (which is an expanded version of the DCBI) I cannot remember of the two technologies it was.

I do know that the clock is a OKI m5832, and I have looked at the datasheet which explains how the ±30 second pin on the IC is "adjust" on Pin 15, however I do not know how the 60Hz is used to trigger it.

I have uploaded images of the PC boards both component and solder side here in a win zipped file folder here:

http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/MRdcb1boards.zip

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com On Behalf Of Thomas Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:50 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able to suss out how they do the internal reference.

I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy.

There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored.

Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Resor organlists@pacbell.net
To: Time Nuts List time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Hello,

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the requirements.

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller.

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that setting isn't much better.

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Does such a thing exist?

Thank You

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." --Jonathan Winters

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

I am sure there are master circuit diagrams of the DCB1 but I've never seen them during my visits to the factory. It was explained to me, there are no printed service manuals for the digital product line. If I have questions the engineer or the owner can answer them. Which I may also need to do. I do know there was work done for an accessory attachable to the DCBIII with the addition of a WWVB receiver or GPS, (which is an expanded version of the DCBI) I cannot remember of the two technologies it was. I do know that the clock is a OKI m5832, and I have looked at the datasheet which explains how the ±30 second pin on the IC is "adjust" on Pin 15, however I do not know how the 60Hz is used to trigger it. I have uploaded images of the PC boards both component and solder side here in a win zipped file folder here: http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/MRdcb1boards.zip Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of Thomas Miller Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:50 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able to suss out how they do the internal reference. I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy. There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> To: Time Nuts List <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Hello, My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the requirements. What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller. Seen here: http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. jpg The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that setting isn't much better. I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. Does such a thing exist? Thank You Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." --Jonathan Winters _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

DR

D. Resor

Mon, Mar 5, 2018 2:13 PM

I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that.

I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult. Some of the integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also.

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that. I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult. Some of the integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also. Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Donald I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of answers. It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a soldering iron. I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no schematics. If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting. It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring circuit. Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down. Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz out. Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get the 60 Hz. Good luck Regards Paul WB8TSL

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator