The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC. In addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell solenoids. This where the AC reference is "sampled" I cannot completely cut out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI. A lot to study..... Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Donald, Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem: 1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz controlled. 2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? How many seconds per week is your limit? 3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead. 4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz. > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net > server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is. /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Resor" <organlists@pacbell.net> To: "Time Nuts List" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > Hello, > > > > My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a > source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. > > > > The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the > requirements. > > > > What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock > controller. > > Seen here: > http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. > jpg > > > > The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon > here: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 > > > > > > It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections > using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. > > > > This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, > this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in > sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz > line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 > seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. > > > > The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however > that setting isn't much better. > > > > I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be > synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or > possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. > > > > Does such a thing exist? > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > > http://hammondorganservice.com > Hammond USA warranty service > "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they > don't." --Jonathan Winters > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Hi A very normal way to get the 60 Hz into the clock chips is to pull it off of something like the 24V transformer winding. They run through a resistor over to a limiter circuit to turn the sine wave into a square wave. That square wave heads into the input pin on the clock chip. Some “quality time” spent working out what’s what on the pc board should allow you to find the relevant section of the board. Once you find the right stuff, it should be as simple as opening up a resistor and running a jumper wire to the right spot on the board. Feed the wire with your new 60 Hz square wave out of Tom’s PICDIV. The “mods” should be very reversible and not a threat to the longevity of the DCBI. Bob > On Mar 5, 2018, at 9:17 AM, D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> wrote: > > The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC. In addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell solenoids. This where the AC reference is "sampled" I cannot completely cut out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI. > > A lot to study..... > > > Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. > http://hammondorganservice.com > Hammond USA warranty service > "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:02 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > > Donald, > > Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem: > > 1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz controlled. > > 2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? How many seconds per week is your limit? > > 3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead. > > 4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz. > >> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be >> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net >> server or possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. > > Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is. > > /tvb > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "D. Resor" <organlists@pacbell.net> > To: "Time Nuts List" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM > Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator > > >> Hello, >> >> >> >> My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a >> source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator. >> >> >> >> The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't seem to fit the >> requirements. >> >> >> >> What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock >> controller. >> >> Seen here: >> http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a. >> jpg >> >> >> >> The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon >> here: >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0 >> >> >> >> >> >> It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections >> using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods. >> >> >> >> This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area. The problem is, >> this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in >> sync. Up until a few years ago this worked very well. Now, Edison's 60Hz >> line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 >> seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized. >> >> >> >> The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however >> that setting isn't much better. >> >> >> >> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be >> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or >> possibly GPS. It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz. >> >> >> >> Does such a thing exist? >> >> >> >> Thank You >> >> >> >> >> >> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. >> >> http://hammondorganservice.com >> Hammond USA warranty service >> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they >> don't." --Jonathan Winters >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Ok, looking at the pictures and the datasheet gives several questions. 1) What signal is on TP1? Is it 32,768 Hz? 2) What does C3 do? Is it used to trim the 32,768 Xtal? 3) Out of curiosity what is the frequency of U2, the oscillator module? Maybe you can remove the 32,768 Xtal and feed in a more accurate reference (from a 32,768 TCXO or OCXO). Or a derived from a 10 MHz GPSDO divided to 32,768 and fed into pin 17 of the 5832? I wonder if the 60 Hz line option just feeds an input to the Z80 processor and the time keeping is done in software? Again, what does C3 do? I know there are some Rb oscillators that can be programmed to output 32,768 Hz. Might try looking for one of those. Interesting problem. Thanks for sharing it. Regards, -----Original Message----- From: D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2018 10:02 am Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that. I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult. Some of the integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also. Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co. http://hammondorganservice.com Hammond USA warranty service "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." --Jonathan Winters -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> On Behalf Of paul swed Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator Donald I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of answers. It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a soldering iron. I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no schematics. If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting. It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring circuit. Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down. Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz out. Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get the 60 Hz. Good luck Regards Paul WB8TSL _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Take a look at the Maxim DS32KHZS 32.768kHz Temperature-Compensated Crystal Oscillator TCXO Available in 14 pin dip, needs +5 (you have), batt (you have, ground. Supplies 32,768 that you feed into pin 17 of the clock chip after removing the existing Xtal. Supposed to hold 1 min per year over the full temp range with no adjustment. This guy says he has them in the 14 pin dip: <https://www.ebay.com/itm/DS32KHZS-32-768kHz-Temperature-Compensated-Crystal-Oscillator-TCXO-SOIC-16-USA/231767038534?epid=1801717048&hash=item35f6645a46:g:ZXgAAMXQUY1Q-BXP> Regards -----Original Message----- From: D. Resor <organlists@pacbell.net> To: 'Tom Van Baak' <tvb@leapsecond.com>; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2018 10:02 am Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC. In addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell solenoids. This where the AC reference is "sampled" I cannot completely cut out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI. A lot to study.....

Or if you want a bit more of a challenge, you might consider the DS3231 https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/DS3231.pdf This is a full-featured real time clock with a TCXO. It has a programmable 32KHz or 1 pps output. You can trim the frequency digitally via an I2C port in increments of about 0.1 ppm.It comes in a small package but you can get the Chronodot, a breakout version with 0.1" headers from Adafruit and elsewhere: https://www.adafruit.com/product/255 You can use the Chronodot by itself or hook it to an Arduino to access the full range of features. > -- --Jim Harman