Detector Matching
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard@karlquist.com> wrote:
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Disclaimer: the section I lead at CERN has been contributing to KiCad
development [1] since 2011. Our main driver is to facilitate sharing and
collaboration [2] in the domain of Open Source Hardware. As others have
said, there is quite some momentum behind KiCad these days. If you want to
give it a quick try, I think Chris Gammell's simple "Getting to blinky"
tutorial [3] is a very good place to start. Chris also runs a very lively
forum where people can ask questions [4]. KiCad does have its quirks [5]
like all other EDA tools, but it's progressing quickly and the developers
are quite receptive to constructive criticism. We want to take KiCad beyond
the hobbyist realm, and we are especially interested in feedback from
people in the designers-we-admire category like you.
Cheers,
Javier
[1] http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki
[2] https://giving.web.cern.ch/content/kicad-development-1
[3] https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/getting-to-blinky-4-0/
[4] https://forum.kicad.info/
[5] See e.g. the list we keep at
http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/UI_improvements
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
I'm using KiCad since a few years. There're conversion tools from the
eagle libraries to obtain
both schematic libs and footprints to be used on KiCad. There're also
quite a few native libraries. Overall I would never look for anything
else. But I'm not a professional user, so my time is kind of free.
73
Frank IZ8DWF
I use Copper Connection, a $50 package (PWB layout only) that works very
well for me.
There is a free eval version that has some limitations.
Didier KO4BB
On Jan 19, 2017 11:01 PM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" richard@karlquist.com
wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
their less desirable customers.
I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
deals with. She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
all $5,000 of it. I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced. Small
customers with $5K deposits are not profitable. So Autodesk is
selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
Apple has a neat business model too. They have like about 18% of the
world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit. What
they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
geographically distributed.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
THere was a time when Autodesk's "AutoCad" was the most pirated
software in the world. It is still up near the top of that list and
Autodesk finally cam around and saw this as a Good Thing. It made
their product a standard and they saw that those pirated copies were
not lost sales. Anyone who needed it for real work paid. I think
they like this model and are doing it with Fustion.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Might I suggest KiCAD? It is free and open source. It is developed
by CERN (https://home.cern/) and
a community of developers. There are no size limits and it does
everything that Eagle does. Available for
Windows and Linux. CERN uses it in-house and they do a lot of unusual
projects as you might imagine.
http://kicad-pcb.org/
I had used Eagle and liked it but have moved over to KiCAD after the
buy-out.
Pete.
On 1/20/2017 11:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
bought any prescription drugs lately?
On 2017-01-20 09:58, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those
layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license
“categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do.
That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would
suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody
else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have
a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for
them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no
hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle.
This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and
Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some
updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that
has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying
$500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may
abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Dr. Don Latham
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304
Not a bad mini-review on Kicad (3 parts), explores some of the good and bad.
https://hackaday.com/2016/11/17/creating-a-pcb-in-everything-kicad-part-1/
-=Bryan=-
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Peter Reilley preilley_454@comcast.net
Sent: January 20, 2017 10:45 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year
Might I suggest KiCAD? It is free and open source. It is developed
by CERN (https://home.cern/) and
a community of developers. There are no size limits and it does
everything that Eagle does. Available for
Windows and Linux. CERN uses it in-house and they do a lot of unusual
projects as you might imagine.
http://kicad-pcb.org/
I had used Eagle and liked it but have moved over to KiCAD after the
buy-out.
Pete.
On 1/20/2017 11:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi
On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com wrote:
It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
their less desirable customers.
I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
deals with. She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
all $5,000 of it. I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced. Small
customers with $5K deposits are not profitable. So Autodesk is
selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
The last time they played this game they found that reducing the subscriber base 1000:1
at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year. That’s why I suggest that people
wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not have what it takes
to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block of licenses at the Fortune
500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the small, price sensitive guys. Each
time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a disaster because of that.
The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s really all about how much money they
bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per feature basis rather
than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge what they can as long as
people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust.
Bob
Apple has a neat business model too. They have like about 18% of the
world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit. What
they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
geographically distributed.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.
It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there will be signals on all those layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.
It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.
So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to switch
packages.
Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
Bob
On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com wrote:
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future. There is strength in numbers.
Comments?
Rick N6RK
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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