What can I add to this thats not been said. This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value.... I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter. Its not the same company any longer, just the same name. So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > > > On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off" > > their less desirable customers. > > > > I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she > > deals with. She said she would move "all her money out of the bank" > > all $5,000 of it. I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank > > wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced. Small > > customers with $5K deposits are not profitable. So Autodesk is > > selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport. > > The last time they played this game they found that reducing the > subscriber base 1000:1 > at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year. That’s why I > suggest that people > wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not > have what it takes > to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block > of licenses at the Fortune > 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the > small, price sensitive guys. Each > time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a > disaster because of that. > > The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s > really all about how much money they > bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per > feature basis rather > than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge > what they can as long as > people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust. > > Bob > > > > > Apple has a neat business model too. They have like about 18% of the > > world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit. What > > they do is take the one in five most profitable customers. > > > > Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most > > rich customers and let the others go elsewhere. > > > > In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market. > > > > Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and > > case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is > > geographically distributed. > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of > what just came out > >> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. > What they are doing > >> is exactly what they said they would not do. > >> > >> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to > have designs above > >> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those > layers. That puts me > >> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a > perpetual license > >> that I paid < 1/2 that for. > >> > >> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license > “categories” have vanished. > >> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. > That’s about the only > >> one that is rational at this point. > >> > >> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would > suggest is to > >> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody > else that has > >> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have > a major disconnect > >> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for > them to do. Part of that > >> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no > hurry to switch > >> packages. > >> > >> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. > This week (month .. year) > >> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and > Eagle pay? > >> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some > updates. Both > >> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that > has to get paid > >> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying > $500 a year > >> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may > abandon the whole > >> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> > >>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist < > richard@karlquist.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list. > >>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a > >>> professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the > >>> announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they > >>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least > >>> on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I > >>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7). > >>> > >>> Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives? > >>> Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out > >>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in > >>> the future. There is strength in numbers. > >>> > >>> Comments? > >>> > >>> Rick N6RK > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chris Albertson > > Redondo Beach, California > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi The interesting point about “who said what” is that Autodesk people stated *after* the acquisition that the Eagle license model would not change … That’s one of the reasons I’d like to wait a bit and see what those same people say now. Bob > On Jan 21, 2017, at 9:43 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > What can I add to this thats not been said. > This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked > there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a > ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile > they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value.... > I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back > and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change > especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When > a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter. > Its not the same company any longer, just the same name. > So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> >>> On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off" >>> their less desirable customers. >>> >>> I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she >>> deals with. She said she would move "all her money out of the bank" >>> all $5,000 of it. I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank >>> wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced. Small >>> customers with $5K deposits are not profitable. So Autodesk is >>> selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport. >> >> The last time they played this game they found that reducing the >> subscriber base 1000:1 >> at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year. That’s why I >> suggest that people >> wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not >> have what it takes >> to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block >> of licenses at the Fortune >> 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the >> small, price sensitive guys. Each >> time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a >> disaster because of that. >> >> The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s >> really all about how much money they >> bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per >> feature basis rather >> than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge >> what they can as long as >> people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust. >> >> Bob >> >>> >>> Apple has a neat business model too. They have like about 18% of the >>> world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit. What >>> they do is take the one in five most profitable customers. >>> >>> Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most >>> rich customers and let the others go elsewhere. >>> >>> In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market. >>> >>> Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and >>> case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is >>> geographically distributed. >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of >> what just came out >>>> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. >> What they are doing >>>> is exactly what they said they would not do. >>>> >>>> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to >> have designs above >>>> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those >> layers. That puts me >>>> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a >> perpetual license >>>> that I paid < 1/2 that for. >>>> >>>> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license >> “categories” have vanished. >>>> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. >> That’s about the only >>>> one that is rational at this point. >>>> >>>> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would >> suggest is to >>>> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody >> else that has >>>> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have >> a major disconnect >>>> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for >> them to do. Part of that >>>> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no >> hurry to switch >>>> packages. >>>> >>>> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. >> This week (month .. year) >>>> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and >> Eagle pay? >>>> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some >> updates. Both >>>> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that >> has to get paid >>>> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying >> $500 a year >>>> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may >> abandon the whole >>>> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist < >> richard@karlquist.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list. >>>>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a >>>>> professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the >>>>> announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way they >>>>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least >>>>> on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I >>>>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7). >>>>> >>>>> Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives? >>>>> Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out >>>>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in >>>>> the future. There is strength in numbers. >>>>> >>>>> Comments? >>>>> >>>>> Rick N6RK >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Chris Albertson >>> Redondo Beach, California >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Your existing Eagle license should allow you to run your existing version indefinitely. I think it would be useful for a few years or so. I also think your existing license also allows you to run one copy on Mac, Linux or Windows. So, if you are on Windows 7 and think you might want to migrate to Linux or Mac, go download a copy of the other installers NOW. They have pulled down the Version 7.7 and all earlier version archive access on the main Eagle and AutoCad site, but the cadsoft ftp server is still up and serving. I don't expect AutoCad to allow that to happen for much longer. ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/ <ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/> ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/ Running real slow, (overloaded?) so be patient. The biggest issue with migrating to KiCad for me is walking away from ten years of "trusted" parts footprints. Hopefully an Eagle to KiCad footprint translator would become available. I don't do enough hobby and incidental work to justify the $500 per year that it would take to replace my previous $125 every three years or so "Non-profit" license. --- Graham == On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 8:43 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > What can I add to this thats not been said. > This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked > there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a > ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile > they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value.... > I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back > and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change > especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When > a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter. > Its not the same company any longer, just the same name. > So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson < > albertson.chris@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off" > > > their less desirable customers. > > > > > > I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she > > > deals with. She said she would move "all her money out of the bank" > > > all $5,000 of it. I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank > > > wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced. Small > > > customers with $5K deposits are not profitable. So Autodesk is > > > selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport. > > > > The last time they played this game they found that reducing the > > subscriber base 1000:1 > > at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year. That’s why I > > suggest that people > > wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not > > have what it takes > > to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block > > of licenses at the Fortune > > 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the > > small, price sensitive guys. Each > > time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a > > disaster because of that. > > > > The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s > > really all about how much money they > > bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per > > feature basis rather > > than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge > > what they can as long as > > people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > Apple has a neat business model too. They have like about 18% of the > > > world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit. What > > > they do is take the one in five most profitable customers. > > > > > > Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most > > > rich customers and let the others go elsewhere. > > > > > > In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market. > > > > > > Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and > > > case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is > > > geographically distributed. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > >> Hi > > >> > > >> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of > > what just came out > > >> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. > > What they are doing > > >> is exactly what they said they would not do. > > >> > > >> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to > > have designs above > > >> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those > > layers. That puts me > > >> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a > > perpetual license > > >> that I paid < 1/2 that for. > > >> > > >> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license > > “categories” have vanished. > > >> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. > > That’s about the only > > >> one that is rational at this point. > > >> > > >> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would > > suggest is to > > >> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody > > else that has > > >> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have > > a major disconnect > > >> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for > > them to do. Part of that > > >> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no > > hurry to switch > > >> packages. > > >> > > >> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT more than I use Eagle. > > This week (month .. year) > > >> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and > > Eagle pay? > > >> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some > > updates. Both > > >> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that > > has to get paid > > >> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying > > $500 a year > > >> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may > > abandon the whole > > >> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see. > > >> > > >> Bob > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist < > > richard@karlquist.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list. > > >>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a > > >>> professional license from Autodesk. The spin meistering of the > > >>> announcement would make George Orwell proud. I don't see any way > they > > >>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least > > >>> on the OS's it supports. (Parenthetically, like many users, I > > >>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7). > > >>> > > >>> Still, the question arises: are there any affordable alternatives? > > >>> Don't have to be entirely free. I am looking for any trends out > > >>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in > > >>> the future. There is strength in numbers. > > >>> > > >>> Comments? > > >>> > > >>> Rick N6RK > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >>> and follow the instructions there. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Chris Albertson > > > Redondo Beach, California > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Graham, Thank you for your tip. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL El 21/01/2017 a las 17:26, Graham / KE9H escribió: > Your existing Eagle license should allow you to run your existing version > indefinitely. > I think it would be useful for a few years or so. > > I also think your existing license also allows you to run one copy on Mac, > Linux or Windows. > So, if you are on Windows 7 and think you might want to migrate to Linux or > Mac, > go download a copy of the other installers NOW. > > They have pulled down the Version 7.7 and all earlier version archive > access on the main > Eagle and AutoCad site, but the cadsoft ftp server is still up and > serving. I don't expect > AutoCad to allow that to happen for much longer. > > ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/ <ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/> > ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/ > > Running real slow, (overloaded?) so be patient. > > The biggest issue with migrating to KiCad for me is walking away from ten > years of > "trusted" parts footprints. Hopefully an Eagle to KiCad footprint > translator would > become available. > > I don't do enough hobby and incidental work to justify the $500 per year > that it would > take to replace my previous $125 every three years or so "Non-profit" > license. > > --- Graham > > == >

I downloaded the following: eagle-win64.exe eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe.INF What is the difference between these files in terms of installing this version? Which file do I run? Do I need the other ones to go along with it? (Similarly, for LINUX, there is the same set of files, except substitute "run" for "exe") Rick N6RK

The .INF file seems just to be a text description, and the non-versioned .ext/.zip/.run file  file is a link to the file one with the version number.  So either one will get you the same installer, and the .INF file isn't needed. Sent from BlueMail ​ On Jan 21, 2017, 9:45 PM, at 9:45 PM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com> wrote: >I downloaded the following: > >eagle-win64.exe >eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe >eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe.INF > >What is the difference between these files in terms of installing this >version? Which file do I run? Do I need the other ones to go along >with it? > >(Similarly, for LINUX, there is the same set of files, except >substitute "run" for "exe") > >Rick N6RK >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there.