Is that true for relatively obscure things like the Prologix GPIB controllers
that aren't high volume?

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

An example which likely has similar volume to the Prologix is the saleae
logic analyzer, google "saleae clone".

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote:

Hi

Yes indeed it is true of pretty much ever single GPIB adapter out there. The
issue is that the innards are not terribly complex and the sell price on eBay
is fairly high compared to the material content.

Bob

On 8 October 2016 at 02:13, Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote:

I would have thought the Prologix GPIB controllers no more obscure than the
NI GBPIB-USB controllers, but the NI ones from China have definitely been
counterfeited. There was a report here, the HP list or similar where the
latest National Instruments software reported the GPIB-USB adapters were
counterfeit! The eBay seller said send it back, and the buyer got a refund.
(Personally I would have not sent it back, and still got a refund.)

There was some even more obscure Analog devices chips that were marked as
something else - see the UK microwave list for the details reported by Andy
Talbot.

There was a design published in the latest RadCom (RSGB publication) of a
voltage reference. The sort of thing volt-nuts would make, although not
such high quality as the LTZ1000 chips. The author said it was cheaper to
buy a complete voltage reference board, than the chip. When I looked on
eBay, the board was £2.25 delivered from China. The Analog Devices website
shows the chip having a budgetary price of $7 in quantities of 1000 or
more. So if the chips are $7 (£5-£6), how can they make a complete board,
and pay the postage from China for £2.25? It seems to me highly likely
those voltage reference chips are counterfeit. If not counterfeit, they are
hardly legal devices.

Like Bob Camp said, it is better to pay more money and get a genuine
product.

Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT,
UK.
Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.
http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please)

How do you know the product you "paid more money" for is
not a counterfeit?

The best you can do is to go to a source that you trust,
for some reason, and exercise a right of return.

For instance, I have found counterfeit capacitors in
products from HP (in power supplies).  They looked like
Nichicon, but were a slightly wrong color, and had the
name mispelled Nichicom.  And surprise!  They were bad...

I have also found United "Chemicom" caps in one device.

And I have found counterfeit FTDI USB->RS232 devices in
medical instruments...  I only know of them because of
FTDI's momentary spate of anarchist activity where they
had their windows drivers erase the ID from counterfeit
parts... The equipment they were in was scrapped because
the USB ports failed...  A linux utility that I have
showed me why (lsusb).

As to the LTZ1000 type parts.  These references appear in
many, many places you might not expect.  They are in about
all laboratory precision scales, a lot of medical instruments,
like thermometers, driers, and ovens, and the Chinese know
it.

They take pulls from these obscure sources, weld new full
length leads onto the stubs on the original parts, and
sell them as new.  They probably are good enough for 99%
of the applications where they might get used. aged even.

-Chuck Harris

Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:

In message CANX10hCffM_bg9OXmDZmPH8CM7DJ7-6+2SDn9htdH1=6b-EBYw@mail.gmail.com
, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" writes:

You overlook the most likely scenario:  "Pre-owned".

China has massive and very efficient recycling of electronic
components from all the E-Junk we send down there.

And for voltage references, "pre-owned" is likely to mean "better".

--
Poul-Henning Kamp      | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG        | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer      | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Poul-Henning wrote:

Perhaps, but third-world recyclers are not known for gentle treatment
during the parts removal process.  There have been lots of videos and
descriptions on the web that are truly eye-opening.  The process
generally involves an intense heat source (everything from gas stove
burners to campfires) over which children hold PC boards, and when the
solder is good and flowing (maybe hundreds of degrees above its melting
point) they give the boards a mighty whack on the edge of a table so the
parts come flying off.

They are NOT using temperature-controlled vacuum desoldering stations.

I'm not particularly interested in a voltage reference IC that has been
overheated for a prolonged period, then subjected while hot to a 50G whack.

Best regards,

Charles

I think those voltage reference ICs have been done to death over on EEVBlog
and the general consensus is that they work very well, the only counterfeit
part is the 'calibration' sheet that comes with them, they seem to be done
on a photocopier.

They also appear to exceed the accuracy specifications of the part suffix,
my own experience of the three I own is very positive and they've been
checked by a friend who has access to some rather nice HP bench meters.

I would however be very wary of buying surplus OCXOs from eBay, some appear
to have been remove from boards by percussive means (BFO guage hammer) if
some of the pictures are representative of the devices for sale.

On 10 October 2016 at 09:35, Charles Steinmetz csteinmetz@yandex.com
wrote:

--
Clint.

No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

On 10 October 2016 at 09:35, Charles Steinmetz csteinmetz@yandex.com
wrote:

I had some cheap ($10) GPS receiver boards shipped to me in a plastic
kitchen bag from yikunhk on eBay. 4 boards in the same bag, all scratching
each other. The bag was not anti-static.

There are all number of possible explanations of why boards can be made so
cheaply, when the ICs appear to cost more than the boards.

• The chips are counterfeit
• The chips are similar to what they are supposed to be, but have been
  relabeled.
• They are made at the same factory as the real devices, on what I've heard
  described as the "ghost shift", where they are not officially made, but are
  the same devices.
• They are recycled.
• They are stolen.

It is anyone's guess once you start buying semiconductor devices from eBay.
Maybe you are lucky, maybe you are not.

You dramatically increase the probability a part is good if sourced from a
reputable source (e.g. RS or Farnell in the UK). That is not to say that
the parts are not counterfeits, as even the best suppliers can get caught,
but they are more likely to be ok.

I recently bought a supposedly original Samsung battery for my Samsung
Galazy S3 phone from a local shop. The phone had all sorts of issues with
this battery, so I concluded it was a poor counterfeit.  I thought I'd be
safe buying directory from Amazon (not a 3rd party), but on reading reviews
on Amazon, I was not convinced those were genuine Samsung batteries either,
so I did not buy from Amazon.

Eventually I bought a battery from the Samsung website. The phone now works
ok.  I don't know if  Samsung actually make the batteries themselves, but I
think I have a better chance of buying from the Samsung website than from
anywhere else.

I've had "Duracell" batteries leak. At one time I used to blame Duracell,
but now it has cross my mind whether they might have been bought on eBay
and were counterfeits. I can't recall where they were purchased, but now I
will only purchase batteries from sources I consider reputable.

Dave.

Once upon the time I designed some power-supplies, used parts from a
sound name US company, they asked for $12.-- each  --it was long time
ego -- the equipment supposed to built in Asia, the manager -- I was one
outside consultant -- told me that we can not use that expensive parts,
my Chinese colleague told, that I should not worry that part will not
cost more than a dollar, at the end we got the parts for 57 cents in
Hong Kong,  the manager was on the opinion that the cheap parts are
counterfeit, therefore we opened  one expensive original and one cheap
one; the silicon was identical, as the performance too....was it a
perfect copy, or one original?, who cares it worked like the original,
but much cheaper.

73
KL6UHN
Alex

On 10/10/2016 10:13 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: