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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] more of a time distribution question

HM
Hal Murray
Thu, Mar 30, 2017 8:43 PM

I've got a bunch (a pack?) of beaglebones that are connected via  ethernet
(wired) and I want them to be (roughly) synchronized.

How rough?

Running NTP (in some flavor) would be the obvious approach, but I'm in  an
environment where there's no "outside" connectivity.. Could I make  one of
the beaglebones be the NTP server, and the others be the clients?

Yes.  Search for orphan mode.  I've never tried it.  Let e know if you can't
figure out how to make it work and I'll use that as an excuse to learn more.

(I've seen some "add a GPS to a Rpi to make a NTP server" projects, and  I
could probably leverage that)

That should work.  I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone.  What
level of accuracy do you want?  If you only need 100 ms or so, then a normal
junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work.

There is at least one GPS+PPS over USB.  The GPS breakout board plus FTDI USB
2.0 breakout with a few wires gives you PPS with improved accuracy.  (Not
great, just 8x better than PPS over old/slow USB.)  I got mine from Sparkfun.

I've also got a laptop (a mac, as it happens).. what's involved in  making
that be a NTP server (e.g. the Mac might get its time from a  NTP server
at some higher stratum, and then it propagates it down).

That should work too.  I don't know much about the Mac environment.  If it's
running a normal-enough ntpd it is already a server and you don't have to do
anything.  If not, you will have to build/install your own and/or poke holes
in the firewall rules.

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

jimlux@earthlink.net said: > I've got a bunch (a pack?) of beaglebones that are connected via ethernet > (wired) and I want them to be (roughly) synchronized. How rough? > Running NTP (in some flavor) would be the obvious approach, but I'm in an > environment where there's no "outside" connectivity.. Could I make one of > the beaglebones be the NTP server, and the others be the clients? Yes. Search for orphan mode. I've never tried it. Let e know if you can't figure out how to make it work and I'll use that as an excuse to learn more. > (I've seen some "add a GPS to a Rpi to make a NTP server" projects, and I > could probably leverage that) That should work. I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone. What level of accuracy do you want? If you only need 100 ms or so, then a normal junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work. There is at least one GPS+PPS over USB. The GPS breakout board plus FTDI USB 2.0 breakout with a few wires gives you PPS with improved accuracy. (Not great, just 8x better than PPS over old/slow USB.) I got mine from Sparkfun. > I've also got a laptop (a mac, as it happens).. what's involved in making > *that* be a NTP server (e.g. the Mac might get its time from a NTP server > at some higher stratum, and then it propagates it down). That should work too. I don't know much about the Mac environment. If it's running a normal-enough ntpd it is already a server and you don't have to do anything. If not, you will have to build/install your own and/or poke holes in the firewall rules. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
JH
John Hawkinson
Fri, Mar 31, 2017 3:12 AM

Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote on Thu, 30 Mar 2017
at 13:43:34 -0700 in 20170330204334.18A8D406063@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net:

That should work too.  I don't know much about the Mac environment.  If it's
running a normal-enough ntpd it is already a server and you don't have to do
anything.  If not, you will have to build/install your own and/or poke holes
in the firewall rules.

It is worth noting that the ntpd that Apple ships is kind of bizarre,
and it does not actually adjust the clock on the Mac. (Instead it
writes to the drift file -- or at least it is supposed to -- and an
Apple process called "pacemaker(8)" readthe drift file and tries to
maintain the systme clock. In my experience (only through Yosemite --
10.10) this mechanism was horribly broken and did not maintain my
laptop's system clock in any useful way.)

This probably doesn't actually affect the intended use (as the goal is
to keep machines in sync, not to keep them accurate), but anyone who
messes with ntpd under OS X should be aware that it is "weird."

Building the stock ntpd under OS X works just fine, and I recommend that
for anyone who wants to tinker with ntp under OS X.

--jhawk@mit.edu
John Hawkinson

Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> wrote on Thu, 30 Mar 2017 at 13:43:34 -0700 in <20170330204334.18A8D406063@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>: > That should work too. I don't know much about the Mac environment. If it's > running a normal-enough ntpd it is already a server and you don't have to do > anything. If not, you will have to build/install your own and/or poke holes > in the firewall rules. It is worth noting that the ntpd that Apple ships is kind of bizarre, and it does not actually adjust the clock on the Mac. (Instead it writes to the drift file -- or at least it is supposed to -- and an Apple process called "pacemaker(8)" readthe drift file and tries to maintain the systme clock. In my experience (only through Yosemite -- 10.10) this mechanism was horribly broken and did not maintain my laptop's system clock in any useful way.) This probably doesn't actually affect the intended use (as the goal is to keep machines in sync, not to keep them accurate), but anyone who messes with ntpd under OS X should be aware that it is "weird." Building the stock ntpd under OS X works just fine, and I recommend that for anyone who wants to tinker with ntp under OS X. --jhawk@mit.edu John Hawkinson
DJ
David J Taylor
Fri, Mar 31, 2017 7:03 AM

From: Hal Murray

That should work.  I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone.  What
level of accuracy do you want?  If you only need 100 ms or so, then a normal
junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work.

This works with the BeagleBone:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/746

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv

From: Hal Murray That should work. I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone. What level of accuracy do you want? If you only need 100 ms or so, then a normal junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work. ========================== This works with the BeagleBone: https://www.adafruit.com/product/746 Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv
BD
Bob Darlington
Fri, Mar 31, 2017 4:14 PM

I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone.
I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/
products/gnss-module/GT-8736 )

I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very shortly
after that and haven't played with it since.

Is there any interest in something like this?  As with past group buys, I
never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost.  I want to say the brand
new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor.

Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications?

-Bob
N3XKB

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

From: Hal Murray

That should work.  I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone.  What
level of accuracy do you want?  If you only need 100 ms or so, then a
normal
junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work.

This works with the BeagleBone:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/746

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


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I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone. I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/ products/gnss-module/GT-8736 ) I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very shortly after that and haven't played with it since. Is there any interest in something like this? As with past group buys, I never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost. I want to say the brand new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor. Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications? -Bob N3XKB On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor < david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > From: Hal Murray > > That should work. I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone. What > level of accuracy do you want? If you only need 100 ms or so, then a > normal > junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work. > ========================== > > This works with the BeagleBone: > > https://www.adafruit.com/product/746 > > Cheers, > David > -- > SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > Twitter: @gm8arv > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
BC
Bob Camp
Fri, Mar 31, 2017 6:45 PM

Hi

The 8736 is a very nice part. I think some sort of group buy would be a good idea.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Bob Darlington rdarlington@gmail.com wrote:

I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone.
I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/
products/gnss-module/GT-8736 )

I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very shortly
after that and haven't played with it since.

Is there any interest in something like this?  As with past group buys, I
never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost.  I want to say the brand
new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor.

Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications?

-Bob
N3XKB

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

From: Hal Murray

That should work.  I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone.  What
level of accuracy do you want?  If you only need 100 ms or so, then a
normal
junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work.

This works with the BeagleBone:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/746

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
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Hi The 8736 is a very nice part. I think some sort of group buy would be a good idea. Bob Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Bob Darlington <rdarlington@gmail.com> wrote: > > I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone. > I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/ > products/gnss-module/GT-8736 ) > > I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very shortly > after that and haven't played with it since. > > Is there any interest in something like this? As with past group buys, I > never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost. I want to say the brand > new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor. > > Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications? > > -Bob > N3XKB > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor < > david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> From: Hal Murray >> >> That should work. I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone. What >> level of accuracy do you want? If you only need 100 ms or so, then a >> normal >> junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work. >> ========================== >> >> This works with the BeagleBone: >> >> https://www.adafruit.com/product/746 >> >> Cheers, >> David >> -- >> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements >> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu >> Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk >> Twitter: @gm8arv >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
BD
Bob Darlington
Fri, Mar 31, 2017 8:17 PM

I'm happy to run a group buy for just the 8736.    My last quote from the
vendor was just a bit under $27 each, and that does not come with the board
connector.  I picked these boards for compatibility with Motorola
footprint, but also because it doesn't insist on goofy 3.0 volt power and
logic levels for communication.  It's happy with and rated for 3.3 volts
which is desirable.

I'll start a new thread for a group buy with details once I get a fresh
quote from the vendor.

-Bob
N3XKB

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:

Hi

The 8736 is a very nice part. I think some sort of group buy would be a
good idea.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Bob Darlington rdarlington@gmail.com

wrote:

I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone.
I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/
products/gnss-module/GT-8736 )

I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very

shortly

after that and haven't played with it since.

Is there any interest in something like this?  As with past group buys,

I

never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost.  I want to say the

brand

new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor.

Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications?

-Bob
N3XKB

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor <
david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

From: Hal Murray

That should work.  I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone.

What

level of accuracy do you want?  If you only need 100 ms or so, then a
normal
junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work.

This works with the BeagleBone:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/746

Cheers,
David

SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

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mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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I'm happy to run a group buy for just the 8736. My last quote from the vendor was just a bit under $27 each, and that does not come with the board connector. I picked these boards for compatibility with Motorola footprint, but also because it doesn't insist on goofy 3.0 volt power and logic levels for communication. It's happy with and rated for 3.3 volts which is desirable. I'll start a new thread for a group buy with details once I get a fresh quote from the vendor. -Bob N3XKB On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > The 8736 is a very nice part. I think some sort of group buy would be a > good idea. > > Bob > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Bob Darlington <rdarlington@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > I guess it's time for me to finish up that NTP cape for the BeagleBone. > > I'm using a Furuno GT-8736 ( http://www.furuno.com/en/ > > products/gnss-module/GT-8736 ) > > > > I built up a prototype about two years ago but... got married very > shortly > > after that and haven't played with it since. > > > > Is there any interest in something like this? As with past group buys, > I > > never charge a penny of profit and sell at cost. I want to say the > brand > > new GT-8736 boards are $26 a pop (my cost) from the vendor. > > > > Is there a better board from Furuno for timing applications? > > > > -Bob > > N3XKB > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:03 AM, David J Taylor < > > david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> From: Hal Murray > >> > >> That should work. I haven't found a GPS with PPS for the beaglebone. > What > >> level of accuracy do you want? If you only need 100 ms or so, then a > >> normal > >> junk GPS (no PPS) on USB should work. > >> ========================== > >> > >> This works with the BeagleBone: > >> > >> https://www.adafruit.com/product/746 > >> > >> Cheers, > >> David > >> -- > >> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements > >> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu > >> Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk > >> Twitter: @gm8arv > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >