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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] Histogram of T2 arrival times

HM
Hal Murray
Fri, Jul 29, 2016 9:50 AM

So, you have plotted offset versus temp?  Can we see that?

I don't have offset vs temperature.  This is what I work with:
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-clock.png
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-temp.png

Scan the wiki page for PID controllers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

Consider the simple case (no I, no D).  If you have a constant rate of
temperature change, there is a stable point with a constant offset.  The
offset keeps adjusting the frequency (drift in ntp speak) to track the
temperature.  The offset and temp derivative are related by the gain.

The graphs aren't great, but when the temperature is going up the offset is
positive and the reverse.

I would not be surprised if temp was dominant here.  But I can think of a
few other things that may be dominant instead.

Such as?

I would only consider CPU temp a very rough proxy for XTAL temp.  Room
ambient would be much closer to XTAL temp.

That box is fanless.  (There is actually a tiny fan under the disk.)  Mostly,
it's not doing any work.

Room temp tracks CPU temp.

Yup.  I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things.

Model?  URL?

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

> So, you have plotted offset versus temp? Can we see that? I don't have offset vs temperature. This is what I work with: http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-clock.png http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-temp.png Scan the wiki page for PID controllers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller Consider the simple case (no I, no D). If you have a constant rate of temperature change, there is a stable point with a constant offset. The offset keeps adjusting the frequency (drift in ntp speak) to track the temperature. The offset and temp derivative are related by the gain. The graphs aren't great, but when the temperature is going up the offset is positive and the reverse. > I would not be surprised if temp was dominant here. But I can think of a > few other things that may be dominant instead. Such as? > I would only consider CPU temp a very rough proxy for XTAL temp. Room > ambient would be much closer to XTAL temp. That box is fanless. (There is actually a tiny fan under the disk.) Mostly, it's not doing any work. Room temp tracks CPU temp. > Yup. I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things. Model? URL? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
GE
Gary E. Miller
Fri, Jul 29, 2016 7:01 PM

Yo Hal!

On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:50:59 -0700
Hal Murray hmurray@megapathdsl.net wrote:

So, you have plotted offset versus temp?  Can we see that?

150F to 170F on the CPU temps?  And your house temp is a sinusoid?

Weird...

Yup.  I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things.

Model?  URL?

They're all Chinese random stuff.  You'll never find the same model when
you reorder.  This one has the same model number as one of mine, totally
different case:

http://pcsensor.com/usb-thermometer/temper2.html

RGDS
GARY

Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
gem@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

Yo Hal! On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:50:59 -0700 Hal Murray <hmurray@megapathdsl.net> wrote: > > So, you have plotted offset versus temp? Can we see that? > > I don't have offset vs temperature. This is what I work with: > http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-clock.png > http://users.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/LAN-temp.png 150F to 170F on the CPU temps? And your house temp is a sinusoid? Weird... > > Yup. I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things. > > Model? URL? They're all Chinese random stuff. You'll never find the same model when you reorder. This one has the same model number as one of mine, totally different case: http://pcsensor.com/usb-thermometer/temper2.html RGDS GARY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703 gem@rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588
RJ
Rick Jones
Fri, Jul 29, 2016 9:26 PM

Yup.  I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things.

Model?  URL?

Might be over-spec'ed or simply reflect a lack of broad evaluation on
their part, but the SPEC folks have an accepted device list for
temperature sensors to be used for measuring ambient temps for
SPECpower(tm) benchmarks:

https://www.spec.org/power/docs/SPECpower-Device_List.html#mozTocId276706

rick jones

>> Yup. I have some USB thermometers that are good for such things. > > Model? URL? Might be over-spec'ed or simply reflect a lack of broad evaluation on their part, but the SPEC folks have an accepted device list for temperature sensors to be used for measuring ambient temps for SPECpower(tm) benchmarks: https://www.spec.org/power/docs/SPECpower-Device_List.html#mozTocId276706 rick jones