Attila Kinali

Hi, I have been looking into noise and noise processes in the last couple of months. Unfortunately, my seemingly simple question how to simulate power law noise (1/f^a noise) properly led me to a wild goose chase deep into the mathematical lala-land[1]. In order to verify that I haven't gone completely off the track, I would like to check some of the assumptions made with real data. Hence I would like to ask, whether people here have continuous phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks, and if I could get a copy of those, together with a description how it was measured. I am looking for any kind of atomic clock and any kind of measurement. The higher the sample rate and the longer the measurement the better, but I will not be picky. If you know someone who has collected such data, any contact information would also be helpful. Computer generated data does not work in this case, as I want to verify that the assumptions made in the mathematical models have a foundation in the real physical implementations. Thanks in advance Attila Kinali [1] For those interested: If you think that calculus or stochastic was difficult, imagine what their offspring "stochastic calculus" looks like. Now add fractional calculus (half-integrals and half-differentials, but nothing about fractals per se) to the whole thing and you get fractals waiting around the corner. -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson

		Attila Kinali

Hi, Have you considered the BIPM logs? While not very high sampling rate, it has lots of clocks over long time. Time to set something up again. Cheers, Magnus On 03/01/2017 11:36 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > Hi, > > I have been looking into noise and noise processes in the last couple > of months. Unfortunately, my seemingly simple question how to simulate > power law noise (1/f^a noise) properly led me to a wild goose chase > deep into the mathematical lala-land[1]. > > In order to verify that I haven't gone completely off the track, > I would like to check some of the assumptions made with real data. > Hence I would like to ask, whether people here have continuous > phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks, and if I could get > a copy of those, together with a description how it was measured. > > I am looking for any kind of atomic clock and any kind of measurement. > The higher the sample rate and the longer the measurement the better, > but I will not be picky. > > If you know someone who has collected such data, any contact > information would also be helpful. > > Computer generated data does not work in this case, as I want to > verify that the assumptions made in the mathematical models > have a foundation in the real physical implementations. > > > Thanks in advance > > Attila Kinali > > [1] For those interested: If you think that calculus or stochastic > was difficult, imagine what their offspring "stochastic calculus" > looks like. Now add fractional calculus (half-integrals and > half-differentials, but nothing about fractals per se) to the > whole thing and you get fractals waiting around the corner. >

                     Attila Kinali

These data fles? ftp://ftp2.bipm.org/pub/tai/data/2017/clocks/ every 5 days... On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Have you considered the BIPM logs? > While not very high sampling rate, it has lots of clocks over long time. > > Time to set something up again. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > > On 03/01/2017 11:36 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I have been looking into noise and noise processes in the last couple >> of months. Unfortunately, my seemingly simple question how to simulate >> power law noise (1/f^a noise) properly led me to a wild goose chase >> deep into the mathematical lala-land[1]. >> >> In order to verify that I haven't gone completely off the track, >> I would like to check some of the assumptions made with real data. >> Hence I would like to ask, whether people here have continuous >> phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks, and if I could get >> a copy of those, together with a description how it was measured. >> >> I am looking for any kind of atomic clock and any kind of measurement. >> The higher the sample rate and the longer the measurement the better, >> but I will not be picky. >> >> If you know someone who has collected such data, any contact >> information would also be helpful. >> >> Computer generated data does not work in this case, as I want to >> verify that the assumptions made in the mathematical models >> have a foundation in the real physical implementations. >> >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Attila Kinali >> >> [1] For those interested: If you think that calculus or stochastic >> was difficult, imagine what their offspring "stochastic calculus" >> looks like. Now add fractional calculus (half-integrals and >> half-differentials, but nothing about fractals per se) to the >> whole thing and you get fractals waiting around the corner. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

                     Attila Kinali

Yes. For frequency flicker it should be clear enough. Naturally you have frequency error and drift in there, especially on the H-masers. H-masers where not used until the ALGOS algorithm got a drift estimator component in it. Cheers, Magnus On 03/02/2017 09:50 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: > These data fles? > ftp://ftp2.bipm.org/pub/tai/data/2017/clocks/ > every 5 days... > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Magnus Danielson > <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Have you considered the BIPM logs? >> While not very high sampling rate, it has lots of clocks over long time. >> >> Time to set something up again. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> >> On 03/01/2017 11:36 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have been looking into noise and noise processes in the last couple >>> of months. Unfortunately, my seemingly simple question how to simulate >>> power law noise (1/f^a noise) properly led me to a wild goose chase >>> deep into the mathematical lala-land[1]. >>> >>> In order to verify that I haven't gone completely off the track, >>> I would like to check some of the assumptions made with real data. >>> Hence I would like to ask, whether people here have continuous >>> phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks, and if I could get >>> a copy of those, together with a description how it was measured. >>> >>> I am looking for any kind of atomic clock and any kind of measurement. >>> The higher the sample rate and the longer the measurement the better, >>> but I will not be picky. >>> >>> If you know someone who has collected such data, any contact >>> information would also be helpful. >>> >>> Computer generated data does not work in this case, as I want to >>> verify that the assumptions made in the mathematical models >>> have a foundation in the real physical implementations. >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance >>> >>> Attila Kinali >>> >>> [1] For those interested: If you think that calculus or stochastic >>> was difficult, imagine what their offspring "stochastic calculus" >>> looks like. Now add fractional calculus (half-integrals and >>> half-differentials, but nothing about fractals per se) to the >>> whole thing and you get fractals waiting around the corner. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Attila, File www.leapsecond.com/tmp/log22722.dat.gz is half a million seconds of two active H-masers. Data is phase difference, units are seconds, tau0 is 1 s. The raw phase will look bad until you apply a quadratic fit. Stable32 reports: DRIFT FOR FILE: log22722.002 Frequency Data Points 1 thru 515027 of 515027 Drift Type: Quadratic a=8.537717e-08 b=-1.802362e-12 c=-7.356496e-20 Slope=-1.471299e-19 With that done, it stays within 0.5 ns for the week. The ADEV plot might be a good example for you: white noise until 100 s; then the maser auto-tuning plateau until well past 1000 s; then a nice drop into the low -15's. The drift rate was really high. I'd have to check my notes; maybe this was a power-on test. I'll get you a much longer, more stable run later, but this particular run happened to be on my laptop. Some plots attached. log22733v.gif -- screen shot from TSC5110 an hour into the run log22734v.gif -- ditto log22722-1.gif -- Phase residual plot of full data set log22722-2.gif -- ADEV+MDEV of residuals. /tvb note to self: cd \tvb\2013-ahm\5110\ahm5--st5 dir log227* 07/24/2013 04:00 PM 274,948 log22722-mjd56497.txt 07/25/2013 04:00 PM 2,811,260 log22722-mjd56498.txt 07/26/2013 04:00 PM 2,932,144 log22722-mjd56499.txt 07/27/2013 04:00 PM 2,937,430 log22722-mjd56500.txt 07/28/2013 04:00 PM 2,938,722 log22722-mjd56501.txt 07/29/2013 04:00 PM 2,937,226 log22722-mjd56502.txt 07/30/2013 12:36 PM 2,520,794 log22722-mjd56503.txt cat log22722-mjd* | ht2 56497.897473773 1 0.4257858 56497.897485347 2 0.4257756 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ (515027 lines total) \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ 56503.858467512 515026 -4.3111472 56503.858479086 515027 -4.3111562 cat log22722-mjd* | mjdrate 56497.897474 ... 56503.858479 5.96 days (143.06 hours), 515027 lines, 1.000009 seconds/line, 0.999991 Hz cat log22722-mjd* | da fld 3 /5e6 f .14 plus out \tmp\log22722.dat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Attila Kinali" <attila@kinali.ch> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 2:36 PM Subject: [time-nuts] phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks > Hi, > > I have been looking into noise and noise processes in the last couple > of months. Unfortunately, my seemingly simple question how to simulate > power law noise (1/f^a noise) properly led me to a wild goose chase > deep into the mathematical lala-land[1]. > > In order to verify that I haven't gone completely off the track, > I would like to check some of the assumptions made with real data. > Hence I would like to ask, whether people here have continuous > phase/frequency data of real atomic clocks, and if I could get > a copy of those, together with a description how it was measured. > > I am looking for any kind of atomic clock and any kind of measurement. > The higher the sample rate and the longer the measurement the better, > but I will not be picky. > > If you know someone who has collected such data, any contact > information would also be helpful. > > Computer generated data does not work in this case, as I want to > verify that the assumptions made in the mathematical models > have a foundation in the real physical implementations. > > > Thanks in advance > > Attila Kinali > > [1] For those interested: If you think that calculus or stochastic > was difficult, imagine what their offspring "stochastic calculus" > looks like. Now add fractional calculus (half-integrals and > half-differentials, but nothing about fractals per se) to the > whole thing and you get fractals waiting around the corner. > > -- > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no > use without that foundation. > -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.