Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of the modern Trimble survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger point) as an antenna supply voltage. Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. The antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are made to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB terminator. Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB connector, then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We tried to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they refused. We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and just doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to time, which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification from China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Hi China does a lot of things through a marketplace process. Lots of guys with piles of this or that. Any sort of product you get in (to them) small volume likely goes through this kind of arrangement. Buying OCXO’s and other timing gear is every bit as vulnerable to the “this one today, something different tomorrow” process that results. This sort of process is also vulnerable to the “grabbed the wrong box” problem. The good ones are in this box and the others are in that box. I’m in a hurry and …. It’s well worth remembering that we *are* (or should be) paying a very low price for most of this stuff. It is unfortunate that paying a higher price does not seem to guarantee a better outcome. Bob > On Feb 13, 2018, at 8:00 AM, John Green <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: > > Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of the > modern Trimble > survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger > point) > as an antenna supply voltage. > > Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. > > After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would > buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied > that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. The > antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the > eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is > kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling > antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are made > to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB terminator. > Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB connector, > then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese > supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the > parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We tried > to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they refused. > We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and just > doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to time, > which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical > performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification from > China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise > when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Sounds like a drop shipping operation, they've found a supplier in China who is willing to send goods either in plain wrapping without any supplier name or the name of the agent who's selling it. It can be useful to Google anything that looks like a part number on the packaging, you'll often find the main wholesaler or even the manufacturer. On 13 Feb 2018 15:48, "John Green" <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: > Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of the > modern Trimble > survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger > point) > as an antenna supply voltage. > > Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. > > After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would > buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied > that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. The > antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the > eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is > kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling > antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are made > to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB terminator. > Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB connector, > then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese > supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the > parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We tried > to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they refused. > We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and just > doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to time, > which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical > performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification from > China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise > when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi That can be a bit harder if the labels are all in Chinese. Maybe posting pictures of the label? That way those (not I) who can read Chinese might spot something that allows a search to proceed. Bob > On Feb 13, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sounds like a drop shipping operation, they've found a supplier in China > who is willing to send goods either in plain wrapping without any supplier > name or the name of the agent who's selling it. It can be useful to Google > anything that looks like a part number on the packaging, you'll often find > the main wholesaler or even the manufacturer. > > On 13 Feb 2018 15:48, "John Green" <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of the >> modern Trimble >> survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger >> point) >> as an antenna supply voltage. >> >> Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. >> >> After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would >> buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied >> that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. The >> antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the >> eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is >> kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling >> antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are made >> to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB terminator. >> Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB connector, >> then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese >> supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the >> parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We tried >> to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they refused. >> We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and just >> doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to time, >> which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical >> performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification from >> China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise >> when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Agreed but stock numbers on boxes and packets are usually Arabic numerals or a barcode. It's also possible the seller used a stock image which can be copied and pasted into Google web search to track down the maker or at least a distributor who has data. On 13 Feb 2018 16:18, "Bob kb8tq" <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > That can be a bit harder if the labels are all in Chinese. Maybe posting > pictures of the label? That way those (not I) who can read Chinese might > spot something that allows a search to proceed. > > Bob > > > On Feb 13, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Sounds like a drop shipping operation, they've found a supplier in China > > who is willing to send goods either in plain wrapping without any > supplier > > name or the name of the agent who's selling it. It can be useful to > Google > > anything that looks like a part number on the packaging, you'll often > find > > the main wholesaler or even the manufacturer. > > > > On 13 Feb 2018 15:48, "John Green" <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of > the > >> modern Trimble > >> survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger > >> point) > >> as an antenna supply voltage. > >> > >> Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. > >> > >> After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would > >> buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied > >> that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. > The > >> antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the > >> eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is > >> kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling > >> antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are > made > >> to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB > terminator. > >> Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB > connector, > >> then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese > >> supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the > >> parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We > tried > >> to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they > refused. > >> We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and > just > >> doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to > time, > >> which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical > >> performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification > from > >> China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise > >> when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. > >> > >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> > >> Virus-free. > >> www.avast.com > >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Oh, and Google has a handy translation tool which does a reasonable job of translating Chinese text from a jpg image so that's also worth a try. On 13 Feb 2018 16:18, "Bob kb8tq" <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > That can be a bit harder if the labels are all in Chinese. Maybe posting > pictures of the label? That way those (not I) who can read Chinese might > spot something that allows a search to proceed. > > Bob > > > On Feb 13, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Sounds like a drop shipping operation, they've found a supplier in China > > who is willing to send goods either in plain wrapping without any > supplier > > name or the name of the agent who's selling it. It can be useful to > Google > > anything that looks like a part number on the packaging, you'll often > find > > the main wholesaler or even the manufacturer. > > > > On 13 Feb 2018 15:48, "John Green" <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of > the > >> modern Trimble > >> survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger > >> point) > >> as an antenna supply voltage. > >> > >> Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. > >> > >> After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would > >> buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied > >> that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. > The > >> antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the > >> eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is > >> kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling > >> antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are > made > >> to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB > terminator. > >> Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB > connector, > >> then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese > >> supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the > >> parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We > tried > >> to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they > refused. > >> We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and > just > >> doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to > time, > >> which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical > >> performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification > from > >> China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise > >> when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. > >> > >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> > >> Virus-free. > >> www.avast.com > >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ > >> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> > >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi > On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: > > Agreed but stock numbers on boxes and packets are usually Arabic numerals > or a barcode. It's also possible the seller used a stock image which can be > copied and pasted into Google web search to track down the maker or at > least a distributor who has data. The seller did post a number of images for the part that was listed. The gotcha is that the part that arrived is not labeled the same way as the part that was listed. Since the device also has issues, the big question is if it has any connection to the part in the listing at all. The seller seems to have been doing GPS stuff for a while. He also has a very good approval rating. My guess is: this isn’t the first time he’s seen a bump in the road. I’d bet he’s got the ability to check this and that out to see what is what. The seller *does* matter when you buy this stuff. That’s true no matter what you are getting. No matter how good they are, problems do come up. The question is always how well they address them. We tend to dump pretty hard on these guys. I’m not sure that’s always warrantied. Bob > > On 13 Feb 2018 16:18, "Bob kb8tq" <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> That can be a bit harder if the labels are all in Chinese. Maybe posting >> pictures of the label? That way those (not I) who can read Chinese might >> spot something that allows a search to proceed. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Sounds like a drop shipping operation, they've found a supplier in China >>> who is willing to send goods either in plain wrapping without any >> supplier >>> name or the name of the agent who's selling it. It can be useful to >> Google >>> anything that looks like a part number on the packaging, you'll often >> find >>> the main wholesaler or even the manufacturer. >>> >>> On 13 Feb 2018 15:48, "John Green" <wpxs472@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of >> the >>>> modern Trimble >>>> survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger >>>> point) >>>> as an antenna supply voltage. >>>> >>>> Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna. >>>> >>>> After getting my refund, I sent the seller a message saying that I would >>>> buy another if he could assure me it would work at 12 volts. He replied >>>> that he needed to get his hands on a couple and do some testing first. >> The >>>> antenna that I received seems to be different to the one pictured in the >>>> eBay listing. At least the labels are different. I get the feeling he is >>>> kind of a third party dealing with someone in China who is wholesaling >>>> antennas made by someone else. Who really knows what spec. these are >> made >>>> to, or by who. In my former place of employment, we made an SMB >> terminator. >>>> Basically, a 75 ohm resistor soldered across the pins of an SMB >> connector, >>>> then molded in black plastic. We bought the connectors from a Chinese >>>> supplier who supplied them in individual plastic bags. We had to cut the >>>> parts out of the bags before processing, which added a labor step. We >> tried >>>> to get the supplier to sell them to us packaged in bulk, but they >> refused. >>>> We decided that they were actually buying them from someone else and >> just >>>> doing a passthru. The connectors themselves would change from time to >> time, >>>> which caused problems in molding, and sometimes caused the electrical >>>> performance to degrade. Getting parts to reliably meet a specification >> from >>>> China can be a problem. I can't even imagine the issues that could arise >>>> when you try to source an assembly, or completed product. >>>> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ >>>> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_ >>>> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Learned tonight that J. P. Morgan got his start by buying 25 K defective rifles for %3.50 each and selling them to the Army for $25 each. You have no reason to trust a listing. Bill Hawkins -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:04 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eBay GPS antenna test. Hi > On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: > > Agreed but stock numbers on boxes and packets are usually Arabic > numerals or a barcode. It's also possible the seller used a stock > image which can be copied and pasted into Google web search to track > down the maker or at least a distributor who has data. The seller did post a number of images for the part that was listed. The gotcha is that the part that arrived is not labeled the same way as the part that was listed. Since the device also has issues, the big question is if it has any connection to the part in the listing at all. The seller seems to have been doing GPS stuff for a while. He also has a very good approval rating. My guess is: this isn't the first time he's seen a bump in the road. I'd bet he's got the ability to check this and that out to see what is what. The seller *does* matter when you buy this stuff. That's true no matter what you are getting. No matter how good they are, problems do come up. The question is always how well they address them. We tend to dump pretty hard on these guys. I'm not sure that's always warrantied. Bob

Hi Just so people don’t get to down on eBay antennas: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antcom-Active-L1-L2-Choke-Ring-Antenna-Item-123GM1215A-XT-1-AUTOFARM-AGLEADER/302630180910?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antcom-Active-L1-L2-Choke-Ring-Antenna-Item-123GM1215A-XT-1-AUTOFARM-AGLEADER/302630180910?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649> Was indeed brand new in box. The pictures don’t quite give credit to the branding on the antenna. It was shipped directly from the outfit that put the great big letters on it. Price was a bit less than eBay would have you think, but still a bit more than the ones from China. No idea if they will be selling any more. An L1 / L2 choke ring is a much better bet pattern wise than the patch antennas. It also is a great big heavy monster of a thing to mount somewhere …. On the down side, like a lot of what you see, it’s GPS only. At least by spec, it will not pass the full Glonass L1 or L2 bands. That may be why it turned up as “brand new but we’re unloading it”. What the passband *really* looks like ….. we’ll see …. Bob > On Feb 14, 2018, at 12:23 AM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> wrote: > > Learned tonight that J. P. Morgan got his start by buying 25 K defective > rifles for %3.50 each and selling them to the Army for $25 each. You > have no reason to trust a listing. > > Bill Hawkins > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob > kb8tq > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:04 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eBay GPS antenna test. > > Hi > > >> On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Clint Jay <cjaysharp@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Agreed but stock numbers on boxes and packets are usually Arabic >> numerals or a barcode. It's also possible the seller used a stock >> image which can be copied and pasted into Google web search to track >> down the maker or at least a distributor who has data. > > The seller did post a number of images for the part that was listed. The > gotcha is that the part that arrived is not labeled the same way as the > part that was listed. > Since the device also has issues, the big question is if it has any > connection to the part in the listing at all. > > The seller seems to have been doing GPS stuff for a while. He also has a > very good approval rating. My guess is: this isn't the first time he's > seen a bump in the road. I'd bet he's got the ability to check this and > that out to see what is what. > The seller *does* matter when you buy this stuff. That's true no matter > what you are getting. No matter how good they are, problems do come up. > The question is always how well they address them. We tend to dump > pretty hard on these guys. I'm not sure that's always warrantied. > > Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.