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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] precision timing pulse

DG
David G. McGaw
Fri, Nov 18, 2016 9:27 AM

There is something wrong with the example.  The output is single-ended,
so using info from the AD9832 data sheet with Rset=3.9K and Rload=300
ohms as shown in the EVB schematic, it should go from 0 to 3.88mA and 0
to 1.16V.  Figure 12 shows only half this, including only about .3V DC
bias instead of .58V.

I apologize.  As a former Analog Devices applications engineer (Digital
Audio Group), I find this data sheet and user guide poorly written.
They have a lot of digital and almost no analog information.

David N1HAC

On 11/17/16 11:09 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832.
Some time nuts may have used this one.

On page 7 of this doc:

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/user-guides/UG-313.pdf

It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak
across 300 ohms.  This works out to 1.9 mA peak to
peak current through the resistor.  But Rset on the
board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value
for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA.

I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to
peak output current would be equal to Iout Full
Scale, but it appears to be only half of that.

Can anyone clarify this?

Rick


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There is something wrong with the example. The output is single-ended, so using info from the AD9832 data sheet with Rset=3.9K and Rload=300 ohms as shown in the EVB schematic, it should go from 0 to 3.88mA and 0 to 1.16V. Figure 12 shows only half this, including only about .3V DC bias instead of .58V. I apologize. As a former Analog Devices applications engineer (Digital Audio Group), I find this data sheet and user guide poorly written. They have a lot of digital and almost no analog information. David N1HAC On 11/17/16 11:09 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: > Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832. > Some time nuts may have used this one. > > On page 7 of this doc: > > http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/user-guides/UG-313.pdf > > > It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak > across 300 ohms. This works out to 1.9 mA peak to > peak current through the resistor. But Rset on the > board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value > for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA. > > I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to > peak output current would be equal to Iout Full > Scale, but it appears to be only half of that. > > Can anyone clarify this? > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.
TS
Tim Shoppa
Fri, Nov 18, 2016 3:46 PM

Bruce, I assume you are talking about Figure 12 of UG-313.

If an LCD scope is not in single shot mode it will show a composite of many
cycles which will hide the stairsteps (especially if the frequency control
word is not a nice round binary number) in the fuzz.

I think the 0.1uF capacitor on IOUT on the evaluation board also helps roll
off the stairsteps.

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Bruce Griffiths <
bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

With no internal PLL to generate a higher internal frequency than the
25MHz MCLK, that 1MHz waveform looks a bit too smooth for an unfiltered
1MHz output.
Bruce

 On Friday, 18 November 2016 5:12 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <

richard@karlquist.com> wrote:

Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832.
Some time nuts may have used this one.

On page 7 of this doc:

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/
user-guides/UG-313.pdf

It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak
across 300 ohms.  This works out to 1.9 mA peak to
peak current through the resistor.  But Rset on the
board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value
for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA.

I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to
peak output current would be equal to Iout Full
Scale, but it appears to be only half of that.

Can anyone clarify this?

Rick


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Bruce, I assume you are talking about Figure 12 of UG-313. If an LCD scope is not in single shot mode it will show a composite of many cycles which will hide the stairsteps (especially if the frequency control word is not a nice round binary number) in the fuzz. I think the 0.1uF capacitor on IOUT on the evaluation board also helps roll off the stairsteps. Tim N3QE On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Bruce Griffiths < bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > With no internal PLL to generate a higher internal frequency than the > 25MHz MCLK, that 1MHz waveform looks a bit too smooth for an unfiltered > 1MHz output. > Bruce > > On Friday, 18 November 2016 5:12 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist < > richard@karlquist.com> wrote: > > > Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832. > Some time nuts may have used this one. > > On page 7 of this doc: > > http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/ > user-guides/UG-313.pdf > > It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak > across 300 ohms. This works out to 1.9 mA peak to > peak current through the resistor. But Rset on the > board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value > for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA. > > I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to > peak output current would be equal to Iout Full > Scale, but it appears to be only half of that. > > Can anyone clarify this? > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >
R(
Richard (Rick) Karlquist
Mon, Nov 21, 2016 10:32 PM

Well, here is response from ADI:

Quote:
If I remember correctly, this part implements a differential DAC current
source, but only one of the outputs is bonded externally.
In this case, the current settle by Rset should  be divided by 2...,
which explain your results.
I'll update the DS as soon as this has been confirmed.
Unquote...

This sounded reasonable when I first read it, but then I realized
that what he was talking about would explain a factor of 2 error
in output VOLTAGE, but not current.  So I think he confused himself.

It should be interesting to see if he can "confirm" it.

Stay tuned.

Rick

On 11/18/2016 1:27 AM, David G. McGaw wrote:

There is something wrong with the example.  The output is single-ended,
so using info from the AD9832 data sheet with Rset=3.9K and Rload=300
ohms as shown in the EVB schematic, it should go from 0 to 3.88mA and 0
to 1.16V.  Figure 12 shows only half this, including only about .3V DC
bias instead of .58V.

I apologize.  As a former Analog Devices applications engineer (Digital
Audio Group), I find this data sheet and user guide poorly written.
They have a lot of digital and almost no analog information.

David N1HAC

On 11/17/16 11:09 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832.
Some time nuts may have used this one.

On page 7 of this doc:

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/user-guides/UG-313.pdf

It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak
across 300 ohms.  This works out to 1.9 mA peak to
peak current through the resistor.  But Rset on the
board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value
for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA.

I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to
peak output current would be equal to Iout Full
Scale, but it appears to be only half of that.

Can anyone clarify this?

Rick


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Well, here is response from ADI: Quote: If I remember correctly, this part implements a differential DAC current source, but only one of the outputs is bonded externally. In this case, the current settle by Rset should be divided by 2..., which explain your results. I'll update the DS as soon as this has been confirmed. Unquote... This sounded reasonable when I first read it, but then I realized that what he was talking about would explain a factor of 2 error in output VOLTAGE, but not current. So I think he confused himself. It should be interesting to see if he can "confirm" it. Stay tuned. Rick On 11/18/2016 1:27 AM, David G. McGaw wrote: > There is something wrong with the example. The output is single-ended, > so using info from the AD9832 data sheet with Rset=3.9K and Rload=300 > ohms as shown in the EVB schematic, it should go from 0 to 3.88mA and 0 > to 1.16V. Figure 12 shows only half this, including only about .3V DC > bias instead of .58V. > > I apologize. As a former Analog Devices applications engineer (Digital > Audio Group), I find this data sheet and user guide poorly written. > They have a lot of digital and almost no analog information. > > David N1HAC > > > On 11/17/16 11:09 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: >> Trying to figure out what "Iout Full Scale" means on the AD9832. >> Some time nuts may have used this one. >> >> On page 7 of this doc: >> >> http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/user-guides/UG-313.pdf >> >> >> It shows the AD9832 output as 572 mV peak to peak >> across 300 ohms. This works out to 1.9 mA peak to >> peak current through the resistor. But Rset on the >> board is 3.9K, which is supposed to give a value >> for so-called "Iout Full Scale" of 3.878 mA. >> >> I would have thought (just guessing) that peak to >> peak output current would be equal to Iout Full >> Scale, but it appears to be only half of that. >> >> Can anyone clarify this? >> >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >