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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Switching transistors, current sources, nonidealties and noise

D
David
Sat, Jul 2, 2016 7:09 PM

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 19:00:24 +0200, you wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:28:44 -0400
Bob Camp kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:

Real cascode circuits can be built with RF transistors. They also can be simulated.
Simulating them with the “standard” models is a PIA. The issue is that the inductance
of the package is not de-embedded from the test “socket” as carefully as it might be.
There is also the somewhat non-intuitive need to stick a low value resistor in the base.
Done properly, they are very reproducible and reasonably insensitive to load.

Thanks! That resistor in the base did the trick!
Am I right in the assumption that the resistor gives the transistor
some negative feedback and thus prevents it from oscillating?

Attila Kinali

If you can find it, "Preventing Emitter-follower Oscillation" by
Michael Chessman and Nathan Sokal has an analysis of negative
resistance oscillation in transistors and why adding dampening to one
lead is often necessary.  There is a copy of this paper in the
appendix of 1993 Linear Applications Handbook Volume II from Linear
Technology.

I do not remember where I read it but apparently Jim Williams made a
habit of preemptively adding a dampening resistor wherever he found a
transistor with low impedance on at least 2 of its 3 leads just to be
safe.

W2AEW made a video with an extreme example of this problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1Dv2dVGkU

With RF transistors the problem just gets worse and more difficult to
diagnose since the frequency of oscillation may be outside the range
of common test equipment.  Side effects like mysterious operating
point changes may be all that is visible.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 19:00:24 +0200, you wrote: >On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:28:44 -0400 >Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Real cascode circuits can be built with RF transistors. They also can be simulated. >> Simulating them with the “standard” models is a PIA. The issue is that the inductance >> of the package is not de-embedded from the test “socket” as carefully as it might be. >> There is also the somewhat non-intuitive need to stick a low value resistor in the base. >> Done properly, they are very reproducible and reasonably insensitive to load. > >Thanks! That resistor in the base did the trick! >Am I right in the assumption that the resistor gives the transistor >some negative feedback and thus prevents it from oscillating? > >Attila Kinali If you can find it, "Preventing Emitter-follower Oscillation" by Michael Chessman and Nathan Sokal has an analysis of negative resistance oscillation in transistors and why adding dampening to one lead is often necessary. There is a copy of this paper in the appendix of 1993 Linear Applications Handbook Volume II from Linear Technology. I do not remember where I read it but apparently Jim Williams made a habit of preemptively adding a dampening resistor wherever he found a transistor with low impedance on at least 2 of its 3 leads just to be safe. W2AEW made a video with an extreme example of this problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1Dv2dVGkU With RF transistors the problem just gets worse and more difficult to diagnose since the frequency of oscillation may be outside the range of common test equipment. Side effects like mysterious operating point changes may be all that is visible.
AK
Attila Kinali
Sat, Jul 2, 2016 9:59 PM

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 14:09:44 -0500
David davidwhess@gmail.com wrote:

If you can find it, "Preventing Emitter-follower Oscillation" by
Michael Chessman and Nathan Sokal has an analysis of negative
resistance oscillation in transistors and why adding dampening to one
lead is often necessary.  There is a copy of this paper in the
appendix of 1993 Linear Applications Handbook Volume II from Linear
Technology.

Thanks, that was a good read!
For those interested, you can find a copy at
https://archive.org/details/LinearApplicationsHandbookVolume21993
The paper in question is right at the back, pages 592ff.

		Attila Kinali

--
Malek's Law:
Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 14:09:44 -0500 David <davidwhess@gmail.com> wrote: > If you can find it, "Preventing Emitter-follower Oscillation" by > Michael Chessman and Nathan Sokal has an analysis of negative > resistance oscillation in transistors and why adding dampening to one > lead is often necessary. There is a copy of this paper in the > appendix of 1993 Linear Applications Handbook Volume II from Linear > Technology. Thanks, that was a good read! For those interested, you can find a copy at https://archive.org/details/LinearApplicationsHandbookVolume21993 The paper in question is right at the back, pages 592ff. Attila Kinali -- Malek's Law: Any simple idea will be worded in the most complicated way.
TV
Tom Van Baak
Mon, Jul 4, 2016 12:26 AM

Alex is having email trouble so I'll post on his behalf.
He adds this useful resource to the discussion:

Alex is having email trouble so I'll post on his behalf. He adds this useful resource to the discussion: > http://audioworkshop.org/downloads/AMPLIFIERS_OSCILLATION_BJT_CIRCUITS.pdf > > 73 > KJ6UHN Alex