On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

On Monday, 19 September 2016 12:43 AM, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:

On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

Hello I see that you are using E4406A for direct phasenoise measurement--your results are the same as with my E4406A and thunderbolt-but have no spurs. I think it must be your powersupply for your thunderbolt that made those spurs. Hardy -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] På vegne af time-nuts-request@febo.com Sendt: 18. september 2016 15:29 Til: time-nuts@febo.com Emne: time-nuts Digest, Vol 146, Issue 35 Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to time-nuts@febo.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to time-nuts-request@febo.com You can reach the person managing the list at time-nuts-owner@febo.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. (Lars Walenius) 2. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. (Bruce Griffiths) 3. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. (Peter Marczinowski) 4. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. (Peter Marczinowski) 5. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. (Dan Rae) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:52:21 +0000 From: Lars Walenius <lars.walenius@hotmail.com> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. Message-ID: <VI1PR0701MB19182CC04AF1A9AB2A74B8FBF3F50@VI1PR0701MB1918.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What is the specification for the Spectrum analyzer? They don´t tend to be useful for OCXO measurments so is this especially good? Or is it only the Analyzer phase noise we see? Lars Från: David C. Partridge<mailto:david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> Skickat: den 18 september 2016 14:43 Till: 'Bruce Griffiths'<mailto:bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz>; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'<mailto:time-nuts@febo.com> Ämne: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. The results are attached. Dave -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths Sent: 18 September 2016 12:52 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. The signal level is also very low. Brue On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: The phase-noise still looks fairly high. How do you measure this? Cheers, Magnus On 09/18/2016 01:27 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > Now that's interesting I just re-ran the measurement, and got a quite different result which is attached. The spurs have GONE. > > My only guess right now is that the E4406A power supply is getting quieter as it has been on for longer (I've only had it powered for short periods before now). > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Magnus Danielson > Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: magnus@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. > > Hi, > > On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I >> don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that >> just BAU harmonics? > > Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load > on the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave > of > 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. > > While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it though. > > Cheers, > Magnus > >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:55:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> To: "David C. Partridge" <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk>, 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. Message-ID: <1026001816.394838.1474203349917@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Still way above what it should be.Whats the noise floor of the measurement system? Bruce On Monday, 19 September 2016 12:43 AM, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote: I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. The results are attached. Dave -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths Sent: 18 September 2016 12:52 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. The signal level is also very low. Brue On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: The phase-noise still looks fairly high. How do you measure this? Cheers, Magnus On 09/18/2016 01:27 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > Now that's interesting I just re-ran the measurement, and got a quite different result which is attached. The spurs have GONE. > > My only guess right now is that the E4406A power supply is getting quieter as it has been on for longer (I've only had it powered for short periods before now). > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Magnus Danielson > Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: magnus@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. > > Hi, > > On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I >> don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that >> just BAU harmonics? > > Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load > on the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave > of > 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. > > While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it though. > > Cheers, > Magnus > >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:11:55 +0200 From: Peter Marczinowski <peter.laboe@gmail.com> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Cc: "magnus@rubidium.se" <magnus@rubidium.se> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. Message-ID: <CAFLUov06di5Pb_J7-BWcYj=HmL-bWLeFNWy2g1h+x0yNsRNtwQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Even harmonics are caused by asymmetrical nonlinearities, odd harmonics by symmetrical nonlinearities. Peter Am Sonntag, 18. September 2016 schrieb Magnus Danielson : > Hi, > > On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > >> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I don't >> quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that just BAU >> harmonics? >> > > Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load on > the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave of 100 > Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. > > While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it > though. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > >> >> Thanks >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:24:42 +0200 From: Peter Marczinowski <peter.laboe@gmail.com> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. Message-ID: <CAFLUov2UvDK2AbnyJ4+9c6vGaN3nDRzeLp6-Ray=458XKO_-CQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Assuming a nonlinearity, a distortion or partly clipping of only one halfwave, would result in a massive even harmonic, as the 200Hz in the example. From this point of view "as expected", but a different distortion could as well result in any other even harmonic. Peter Am Sonntag, 18. September 2016 schrieb David C. Partridge : > Thanks, that makes sense. Is the PN plot much as expected, or is it > "could do better"? > > Thanks again > Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com <javascript:;>] On > Behalf Of Magnus Danielson > Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 > To: time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > Cc: magnus@rubidium.se <javascript:;> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and > 200Hz from signal. > > Hi, > > On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: > > The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I > > don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that > > just BAU harmonics? > > Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load on > the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave of > 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. > > While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it > though. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> To > unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> To > unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:23:32 -0700 From: Dan Rae <danrae@verizon.net> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. Message-ID: <35c6e8aa-c4fc-70c0-7111-152f8c03d86a@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" On 9/18/2016 5:42 AM, David C. Partridge wrote: > I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. > > The results are attached. > I suspect that you are measuring the analyser phase noise, but it's rather early in the morning... I attach, if I can get it to work, a plot of three different Tbolts on my 3048A system. Dan

 1. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and	200Hz from
    signal. (Lars Walenius)
 2. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from
    signal. (Bruce Griffiths)
 3. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from
    signal. (Peter Marczinowski)
 4. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from
    signal. (Peter Marczinowski)
 5. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from
    signal. (Dan Rae)

  On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

  On Monday, 19 September 2016 12:43 AM, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:

  On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:

Sometimes rectifiers generating very high harmonics particularly if the rectifier is used close to it's current limits. The reverse recovery time increases, therefore the current is conducted after the polarity change for a very short time --until the now majority charge carriers sweeping out from the junction -- the turn off is very fast [ that effect is used by the step-recovery frequency multipliers] an the result is very high multiplied harmonics with substantial amplitude since that very narrow current pulse is produced by a crowbar across the first charge capacitor's voltage. If there is some wire, which have the proper length for on "output resonator " the high frequency source is perfect and the repetition frequency - which is the double line frequency could be heard with the spectrum analyzer's AM The demodulator. The amplitude of the high frequency pulses is much higher as it displayed on the spectrum analyzer, but the spectrum analyzer will integrate --due to it's limited bandwidth -- and shows the average of the pulses. Why is that important? because these high level pulses could modify an amplifier biasing, and perhaps cause periodically repeating jitters or even kill the input of an amplifier. I run into that problem some forty years ego with output rectifiers of switching mode power supplies. If you look old circuit diagrams of power supplies you could find some small capacitors connected across the rectifiers, these capacitors taking care the "buzz" in the old radios. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 9/18/2016 7:39 AM, hardy wrote: > Hello > I see that you are using E4406A for direct phasenoise measurement--your results are the same as with my E4406A and thunderbolt-but have no spurs. > I think it must be your powersupply for your thunderbolt that made those spurs. > Hardy > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] På vegne af time-nuts-request@febo.com > Sendt: 18. september 2016 15:29 > Til: time-nuts@febo.com > Emne: time-nuts Digest, Vol 146, Issue 35 > > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > time-nuts@febo.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > time-nuts-request@febo.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > time-nuts-owner@febo.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from > signal. (Lars Walenius) > 2. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from > signal. (Bruce Griffiths) > 3. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from > signal. (Peter Marczinowski) > 4. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from > signal. (Peter Marczinowski) > 5. Re: Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from > signal. (Dan Rae) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:52:21 +0000 > From: Lars Walenius <lars.walenius@hotmail.com> > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz > and 200Hz from signal. > Message-ID: > <VI1PR0701MB19182CC04AF1A9AB2A74B8FBF3F50@VI1PR0701MB1918.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > What is the specification for the Spectrum analyzer? They don´t tend to be useful for OCXO measurments so is this especially good? Or is it only the Analyzer phase noise we see? > > > > Lars > > > > Från: David C. Partridge<mailto:david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> > Skickat: den 18 september 2016 14:43 > Till: 'Bruce Griffiths'<mailto:bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz>; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'<mailto:time-nuts@febo.com> > Ämne: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. > > > > I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. > > The results are attached. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths > Sent: 18 September 2016 12:52 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. > > The signal level is also very low. > Brue > > On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > > > The phase-noise still looks fairly high. How do you measure this? > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 09/18/2016 01:27 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> Now that's interesting I just re-ran the measurement, and got a quite different result which is attached. The spurs have GONE. >> >> My only guess right now is that the E4406A power supply is getting quieter as it has been on for longer (I've only had it powered for short periods before now). >> >> Dave >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Magnus Danielson >> Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Cc: magnus@rubidium.se >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. >> >> Hi, >> >> On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >>> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I >>> don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that >>> just BAU harmonics? >> Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load >> on the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave >> of >> 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. >> >> While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it though. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 12:55:49 +0000 (UTC) > From: Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> > To: "David C. Partridge" <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk>, 'Discussion > of precise time and frequency measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz > and 200Hz from signal. > Message-ID: <1026001816.394838.1474203349917@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Still way above what it should be.Whats the noise floor of the measurement system? > Bruce > > On Monday, 19 September 2016 12:43 AM, David C. Partridge <david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote: > > > I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. > > The results are attached. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths > Sent: 18 September 2016 12:52 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. > > The signal level is also very low. > Brue > > On Sunday, 18 September 2016 11:47 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > > > The phase-noise still looks fairly high. How do you measure this? > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 09/18/2016 01:27 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> Now that's interesting I just re-ran the measurement, and got a quite different result which is attached. The spurs have GONE. >> >> My only guess right now is that the E4406A power supply is getting quieter as it has been on for longer (I've only had it powered for short periods before now). >> >> Dave >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Magnus Danielson >> Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Cc: magnus@rubidium.se >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and 200Hz from signal. >> >> Hi, >> >> On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >>> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I >>> don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that >>> just BAU harmonics? >> Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load >> on the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave >> of >> 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. >> >> While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it though. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:11:55 +0200 > From: Peter Marczinowski <peter.laboe@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Cc: "magnus@rubidium.se" <magnus@rubidium.se> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz > and 200Hz from signal. > Message-ID: > <CAFLUov06di5Pb_J7-BWcYj=HmL-bWLeFNWy2g1h+x0yNsRNtwQ@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Even harmonics are caused by asymmetrical nonlinearities, odd harmonics by > symmetrical nonlinearities. > > Peter > > > Am Sonntag, 18. September 2016 schrieb Magnus Danielson : > >> Hi, >> >> On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> >>> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I don't >>> quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that just BAU >>> harmonics? >>> >> Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load on >> the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave of 100 >> Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. >> >> While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it >> though. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 13:24:42 +0200 > From: Peter Marczinowski <peter.laboe@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz > and 200Hz from signal. > Message-ID: > <CAFLUov2UvDK2AbnyJ4+9c6vGaN3nDRzeLp6-Ray=458XKO_-CQ@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Assuming a nonlinearity, a distortion or partly clipping of only one > halfwave, would result in a massive even harmonic, as the 200Hz in the > example. From this point of view "as expected", but a different distortion > could as well result in any other even harmonic. > > Peter > > > Am Sonntag, 18. September 2016 schrieb David C. Partridge : > >> Thanks, that makes sense. Is the PN plot much as expected, or is it >> "could do better"? >> >> Thanks again >> Dave >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com <javascript:;>] On >> Behalf Of Magnus Danielson >> Sent: 18 September 2016 11:56 >> To: time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> >> Cc: magnus@rubidium.se <javascript:;> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz and >> 200Hz from signal. >> >> Hi, >> >> On 09/18/2016 12:26 PM, David C. Partridge wrote: >>> The local power is 50Hz, so I can understand the 100Hz spurs, but I >>> don't quite "get" where the 200Hz spurs are coming from. Or is that >>> just BAU harmonics? >> Consider full-wave rectification of 50 Hz, the power consumption load on >> the capacitor after the rectifier creates an inverse sawtooth wave of >> 100 Hz, and sawtooth waveshape have both even and odd harmonics. >> >> While much of this is regulated out in the next step, some of it makes it >> though. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> To >> unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> To >> unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:23:32 -0700 > From: Dan Rae <danrae@verizon.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt spurs on 10MHz output at 100Hz > and 200Hz from signal. > Message-ID: <35c6e8aa-c4fc-70c0-7111-152f8c03d86a@verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > On 9/18/2016 5:42 AM, David C. Partridge wrote: >> I've just redone the measurement without the external attenuator and with 10dB attenuation set internally to the analyser. >> >> The results are attached. >> > I suspect that you are measuring the analyser phase noise, but it's > rather early in the morning... > > I attach, if I can get it to work, a plot of three different Tbolts on > my 3048A system. > > Dan >