RS232 / GPS interface/prototyping board
Yes, I always do a cost/benefit check when ordering boards. For small boards (say less than 4-6 sq inches) when I need three or less, OSHPARK is pretty much always the way to go. For larger boards / quantities, Dirty PCBs (or gojgo.com) come out ahead... even with DHL express shipping. With express shipping, gojgo.com gets boards in my hands in eight days... faster than OSHPARK. You can pay all three places quite a bit extra to shave a couple of days off the fab time.
I seem to be using OSHPARK less and less. It seems I always wind up wanting more than three boards even for what was planned to be a one-off build.
Also, I just got an email from OSHSTENCILS.com They now do 4 mil stainless steel stencils for around $1.25 per sq/inch. If your board uses devices with teeny-weenie features, stainless works better than Kapton (better paste release properties), plus has no wear-out / tearing issues. I have a desktop mill with a 405nm 1W laser and usually cut my own stencils out of red vellum paper. The kerf size is in the 10 micron range... it does not cut Kapton well, or stainless at all.
The value, quality, and turn-around from all these places is amazing. In the olden days, one was paying $50 a square inch for a single prototype board with 4 week turn-around.
On Jun 22, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Mark Sims holrum@hotmail.com wrote:
The value, quality, and turn-around from all these places is amazing. In the olden days, one was paying $50 a square inch for a single prototype board with 4 week turn-around.
Not to turn this into the “Four Yorkshireman” sketch, but in the olden days (which by my reckoning were maybe only 10 years ago) there wasn’t reasonable hobbyist access to PCB CAD software either - like EAGLE or Altium or KiCad or the like.
When I was a teenager (mid 80s) I tried making my own PCB with clad board, an etch resist pen, that nasty brown acid and the smallest drill bit I could get my hands on. This was a single-sided board - I had absolutely no way to line up a two-sided design even if through-hole plating would have been an option (of course, it wouldn’t have). No solder resist, no silk screen.
It was a disaster. Even with a drill press I couldn’t line the DIP holes up closely enough to mash a chip in without bending the leads to hell and gone.
It was that - and seeing the arrival of surface mount - that convinced me at the time that there was no future for hobbyist electronic design and creation. I dove with both feet into a career in software engineering.
I had no clue that all I had to do was wait 20 years.
Life is so much easier now, dirtypcb is a great service, I have a pile of
boards here from them which are far greater quality than anything I could
hope to produce at home or even in the lab I used to have. They're also
better quality than any of the local board houses I used in the past.
Having said that, I did hand manufacture fifty single sided boards from
photo laminate to completed product in one weekend using a Dremel drill
press for somewhere around four thousand holes and hand soldering every
component so it was definitely possible
On 23 Jun 2016 00:01, "Nick Sayer via time-nuts" time-nuts@febo.com wrote:
On Jun 22, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Mark Sims holrum@hotmail.com wrote:
The value, quality, and turn-around from all these places is amazing.
In the olden days, one was paying $50 a square inch for a single prototype
board with 4 week turn-around.
Not to turn this into the “Four Yorkshireman” sketch, but in the olden
days (which by my reckoning were maybe only 10 years ago) there wasn’t
reasonable hobbyist access to PCB CAD software either - like EAGLE or
Altium or KiCad or the like.
When I was a teenager (mid 80s) I tried making my own PCB with clad board,
an etch resist pen, that nasty brown acid and the smallest drill bit I
could get my hands on. This was a single-sided board - I had absolutely no
way to line up a two-sided design even if through-hole plating would have
been an option (of course, it wouldn’t have). No solder resist, no silk
screen.
It was a disaster. Even with a drill press I couldn’t line the DIP holes
up closely enough to mash a chip in without bending the leads to hell and
gone.
It was that - and seeing the arrival of surface mount - that convinced me
at the time that there was no future for hobbyist electronic design and
creation. I dove with both feet into a career in software engineering.
I had no clue that all I had to do was wait 20 years.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
There are an ever increasing number of places that will do pretty good quick turn boards. The fact that
you can get 4 layer 10x10 cm boards with 4/4 mil rules / 8 mil holes for < $20 each delivered in under
two weeks amazes me.Yes that’s a 10 piece price. Yes it includes framed steel stencils. Not so long ago
your cheapest option would have charged you $300 simply to set up the board (== minimum test charge).
The two framed stencils would have cost more than the whole order does now.
Bob
On Jun 22, 2016, at 6:14 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:
On Jun 22, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Mark Sims holrum@hotmail.com wrote:
The value, quality, and turn-around from all these places is amazing. In the olden days, one was paying $50 a square inch for a single prototype board with 4 week turn-around.
Not to turn this into the “Four Yorkshireman” sketch, but in the olden days (which by my reckoning were maybe only 10 years ago) there wasn’t reasonable hobbyist access to PCB CAD software either - like EAGLE or Altium or KiCad or the like.
When I was a teenager (mid 80s) I tried making my own PCB with clad board, an etch resist pen, that nasty brown acid and the smallest drill bit I could get my hands on. This was a single-sided board - I had absolutely no way to line up a two-sided design even if through-hole plating would have been an option (of course, it wouldn’t have). No solder resist, no silk screen.
It was a disaster. Even with a drill press I couldn’t line the DIP holes up closely enough to mash a chip in without bending the leads to hell and gone.
It was that - and seeing the arrival of surface mount - that convinced me at the time that there was no future for hobbyist electronic design and creation. I dove with both feet into a career in software engineering.
I had no clue that all I had to do was wait 20 years.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
On Jun 22, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Mark Sims holrum@hotmail.com wrote:
The value, quality, and turn-around from all these places is amazing.
In the olden days, one was paying $50 a square inch for a single prototype
board with 4 week turn-around.
Not to turn this into the “Four Yorkshireman” sketch, but in the olden
days (which by my reckoning were maybe only 10 years ago) there wasn’t
reasonable hobbyist access to PCB CAD software either - like EAGLE or
Altium or KiCad or the like.
Easytrax - I used it at least as long ago as 1998 because that's the
copyright date on the boards I had made at AP Circuits. The boards weren't
cheap, I seem to recall in the order of $100 for a couple of double sided
boards with plated through holes and no solder mask. Of course, Easytrax
is a DOS program and PCB layout only, but it did the trick. You can still
make it work under a DOS emulator. I used to call it 'vi' for PCBs given
the way you gave it commands from the keyboard. I still remember "pt" for
place track...
I use Eagle now. It's not much better for PCB layout, but at least it has
the schematic editor. I've tried KiCad at least twice, but find no
advantage over Eagle and keep going back to the Eagle free version.
When I was a teenager (mid 80s) I tried making my own PCB with clad board,
an etch resist pen, that nasty brown acid and the smallest drill bit I
could get my hands on. This was a single-sided board - I had absolutely no
way to line up a two-sided design even if through-hole plating would have
been an option (of course, it wouldn’t have). No solder resist, no silk
screen.
It was a disaster. Even with a drill press I couldn’t line the DIP holes
up closely enough to mash a chip in without bending the leads to hell and
gone.
BTDT too. I used a 1/16" drill bit and a hand drill. I'm sure the drill
bit wandered... For home etched boards, I now use the MG Chemicals
positive resist boards. If you have the CAD program print the pads with
the holes when you make the transparency, and hold the board just right
under a drill press, the board will self-center under the drill bit! I'm
sure the MG Chemicals boards cost more per square inch than the Chinese
suppliers, but I can have a single sided board exposed, etched and drilled
in a couple of hours once I have the design. If I'm going to home-produce
a board, I design it with two layers, but use the top layer as little as
possible and use wire links for all tracks on the top layer... obviously I
have to be careful where I put tracks on the top layer when doing this.
Orin.