Time and frequency practical exercise 2018 late quarter; precision measure of 432mhz band Sat in Lunar Orbit
From me, Pat a newbie, second post:
A new project, STEM opportunity. A STEM/CitizenScience/Ham Space Science
project. Kids welcome.
In formative stages so this is for internal discussion, not for public
announcements yet.
Will do a frequency measurement of a Cubesat at about 437 mhz that will
orbit the Moon in 2018.
Can be received by modest yagi antennas while orbiting the moon.
Challenge is to get/use/build precision frequency references and counters,
and measure the carrier frequency. Cesium, Rubidium, MASER, GPS based,
commercial standards, and their derivations all welcome.
Have found 4 (and More) more hydrogen line masers in diverse locations
around the world, who wish to participate.
USA, Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, Mexico, and other locations have
expressed interest.
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK. The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler. We have to measure
its received freq to 1 HZ or less. So I talked to the chief scientist,
and we decided to go with a public STEM related program with it. [PLEASE
DO NOT GO PUBLIC YET this is confidential for now.] Announcement of a
competition for anyone to measure the frequency of the sat as it is in moon
orbit. So I decided to check with about 5 geographically diverse located
MASERS. ( Australia, South Africa, UK, Holland, Mexico and USA, and got
or am getting buy-in from them to make the measurement. I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
Overkill, I admit, but it is a chance for Citizen Science publicity,
Popular Science, STEM, etc..
Anyway I got a bunch of MASERS to participate and will develop a website
for people to measure the freq and send in their "answer". We will have
(are looking for) sponsors that will pay prizes or wall paper awards, for
very close accurate measurements.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this. I will
CC others to see if they want to play. Other frequency references used may
be commercial variations of
Cesium Beam and Rubidium references. But the King Kong in accuracy is the
MASER. I got to learn a bit about the MASER they had at Arecibo when I was
there. And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Arecibo may play on this event next year. So, you only need modest yagis
to pick up the Sat at moon distances on 437.5 mhz should be fun...
The Goldstone MASER; above:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvtimecode.htm
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/history-radio-station-wwv
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/wwv-and-wwvh-digital-time-code-and-broadcast-format
See/Search Also:
Precise Time and Time Interval Clocks Time Frames and Frequency, James R.
Clynch Navy Postgraduate School.
Introduction to Frequency Standards by Lindon Lewis
Interested? Get back to me to start planning for the 2018 launch, and
cubesat in lunar orbit, exact date not known.
Best, 73, Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol apolloeme@gmail.comloeme@gmail.com
"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries, is not "Eureka, I have found it!" but:
"That's funny..." ----Isaac Asimov
Hi
On Nov 17, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Patrick Barthelow apolloeme@gmail.com wrote:
From me, Pat a newbie, second post:
A new project, STEM opportunity. A STEM/CitizenScience/Ham Space Science
project. Kids welcome.
In formative stages so this is for internal discussion, not for public
announcements yet.
Will do a frequency measurement of a Cubesat at about 437 mhz that will
orbit the Moon in 2018.
Can be received by modest yagi antennas while orbiting the moon.
That sounds like a pretty high ERP … Of course your definition of a modest antenna
may not be quite the same as mine :) Consider that there are SNR implications
when you get into your accuracy requirements below.
Challenge is to get/use/build precision frequency references and counters,
and measure the carrier frequency. Cesium, Rubidium, MASER, GPS based,
commercial standards, and their derivations all welcome.
Have found 4 (and More) more hydrogen line masers in diverse locations
around the world, who wish to participate.
USA, Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, Mexico, and other locations have
expressed interest.
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK.
The MASER is a cute device. It is not an accurate device by it’s self. It is a
very stable device. Yes, that is a subtle distinction. In this case I think it is
a pretty important one.
The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler. We have to measure
its received freq to 1 HZ or less.
Ok, 1 Hz at 437.5 MHZ is roughly 2 ppb. That is pretty much “slam dunk” accuracy
with a GPSDO. Much easier to obtain and set up in a school environment. The
key will be orbit estimation for the +/- doppler part of it. Orbit estimation is not
quite a slam dunk sort of thing. The GPSDO would also give accurate location.
Even with good orbit data, the solution still requires a good location estimate.
So I talked to the chief scientist,
and we decided to go with a public STEM related program
I’ve been down the road (from scratch to running) on STEM competitions. The
KISS principle is one to keep in mind. At the same time you do want a topic
that presents a challenge.
with it. [PLEASE
DO NOT GO PUBLIC YET
This is a public list, it’s “out” now.
this is confidential for now.] Announcement of a
competition for anyone to measure the frequency of the sat as it is in moon
orbit. So I decided to check with about 5 geographically diverse located
MASERS. ( Australia, South Africa, UK, Holland, Mexico and USA, and got
or am getting buy-in from them to make the measurement. I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
Overkill, I admit, but it is a chance for Citizen Science publicity,
Popular Science, STEM, etc..
Anyway I got a bunch of MASERS to participate and will develop a website
for people to measure the freq and send in their "answer". We will have
(are looking for) sponsors that will pay prizes or wall paper awards, for
very close accurate measurements.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this. I will
CC others to see if they want to play. Other frequency references used may
be commercial variations of
Cesium Beam and Rubidium references. But the King Kong in accuracy is the
MASER. I got to learn a bit about the MASER they had at Arecibo when I was
there. And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Arecibo may play on this event next year. So, you only need modest yagis
to pick up the Sat at moon distances on 437.5 mhz should be fun...
The Goldstone MASER; above:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvtimecode.htm
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/history-radio-station-wwv
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/wwv-and-wwvh-digital-time-code-and-broadcast-format
See/Search Also:
Precise Time and Time Interval Clocks Time Frames and Frequency, James R.
Clynch Navy Postgraduate School.
Introduction to Frequency Standards by Lindon Lewis
Interested? Get back to me to start planning for the 2018 launch, and
cubesat in lunar orbit, exact date not known.
Best, 73, Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol apolloeme@gmail.comloeme@gmail.com
Bob
"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries, is not "Eureka, I have found it!" but:
"That's funny..." ----Isaac Asimov
<masergoldstone.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
With 197dB of path attenuation and, say, 1W or 2W of transmitter
power, I think that a modest antenna is insufficient. The usual yagi
array for this distance is made by 8 27-element antennas like this:
http://ok1teh.nagano.cz/dl5fn.jpg
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
On Nov 17, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Patrick Barthelow apolloeme@gmail.com wrote:
From me, Pat a newbie, second post:
A new project, STEM opportunity. A STEM/CitizenScience/Ham Space Science
project. Kids welcome.
In formative stages so this is for internal discussion, not for public
announcements yet.
Will do a frequency measurement of a Cubesat at about 437 mhz that will
orbit the Moon in 2018.
Can be received by modest yagi antennas while orbiting the moon.
That sounds like a pretty high ERP … Of course your definition of a modest antenna
may not be quite the same as mine :) Consider that there are SNR implications
when you get into your accuracy requirements below.
Challenge is to get/use/build precision frequency references and counters,
and measure the carrier frequency. Cesium, Rubidium, MASER, GPS based,
commercial standards, and their derivations all welcome.
Have found 4 (and More) more hydrogen line masers in diverse locations
around the world, who wish to participate.
USA, Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, Mexico, and other locations have
expressed interest.
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK.
The MASER is a cute device. It is not an accurate device by it’s self. It is a
very stable device. Yes, that is a subtle distinction. In this case I think it is
a pretty important one.
The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler. We have to measure
its received freq to 1 HZ or less.
Ok, 1 Hz at 437.5 MHZ is roughly 2 ppb. That is pretty much “slam dunk” accuracy
with a GPSDO. Much easier to obtain and set up in a school environment. The
key will be orbit estimation for the +/- doppler part of it. Orbit estimation is not
quite a slam dunk sort of thing. The GPSDO would also give accurate location.
Even with good orbit data, the solution still requires a good location estimate.
So I talked to the chief scientist,
and we decided to go with a public STEM related program
I’ve been down the road (from scratch to running) on STEM competitions. The
KISS principle is one to keep in mind. At the same time you do want a topic
that presents a challenge.
with it. [PLEASE
DO NOT GO PUBLIC YET
This is a public list, it’s “out” now.
this is confidential for now.] Announcement of a
competition for anyone to measure the frequency of the sat as it is in moon
orbit. So I decided to check with about 5 geographically diverse located
MASERS. ( Australia, South Africa, UK, Holland, Mexico and USA, and got
or am getting buy-in from them to make the measurement. I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
Overkill, I admit, but it is a chance for Citizen Science publicity,
Popular Science, STEM, etc..
Anyway I got a bunch of MASERS to participate and will develop a website
for people to measure the freq and send in their "answer". We will have
(are looking for) sponsors that will pay prizes or wall paper awards, for
very close accurate measurements.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this. I will
CC others to see if they want to play. Other frequency references used may
be commercial variations of
Cesium Beam and Rubidium references. But the King Kong in accuracy is the
MASER. I got to learn a bit about the MASER they had at Arecibo when I was
there. And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Arecibo may play on this event next year. So, you only need modest yagis
to pick up the Sat at moon distances on 437.5 mhz should be fun...
The Goldstone MASER; above:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvtimecode.htm
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/history-radio-station-wwv
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/wwv-and-wwvh-digital-time-code-and-broadcast-format
See/Search Also:
Precise Time and Time Interval Clocks Time Frames and Frequency, James R.
Clynch Navy Postgraduate School.
Introduction to Frequency Standards by Lindon Lewis
Interested? Get back to me to start planning for the 2018 launch, and
cubesat in lunar orbit, exact date not known.
Best, 73, Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol apolloeme@gmail.comloeme@gmail.com
Bob
"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries, is not "Eureka, I have found it!" but:
"That's funny..." ----Isaac Asimov
<masergoldstone.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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and follow the instructions there.
Hi
As you get into a bigger array, your antenna pointing / tracking requirements
become more exotic. I doubt that your 8 X array antenna has to do much more
than track the moon, I could be wrong ….
Bob
On Nov 17, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Azelio Boriani azelio.boriani@gmail.com wrote:
With 197dB of path attenuation and, say, 1W or 2W of transmitter
power, I think that a modest antenna is insufficient. The usual yagi
array for this distance is made by 8 27-element antennas like this:
http://ok1teh.nagano.cz/dl5fn.jpg
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
On Nov 17, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Patrick Barthelow apolloeme@gmail.com wrote:
From me, Pat a newbie, second post:
A new project, STEM opportunity. A STEM/CitizenScience/Ham Space Science
project. Kids welcome.
In formative stages so this is for internal discussion, not for public
announcements yet.
Will do a frequency measurement of a Cubesat at about 437 mhz that will
orbit the Moon in 2018.
Can be received by modest yagi antennas while orbiting the moon.
That sounds like a pretty high ERP … Of course your definition of a modest antenna
may not be quite the same as mine :) Consider that there are SNR implications
when you get into your accuracy requirements below.
Challenge is to get/use/build precision frequency references and counters,
and measure the carrier frequency. Cesium, Rubidium, MASER, GPS based,
commercial standards, and their derivations all welcome.
Have found 4 (and More) more hydrogen line masers in diverse locations
around the world, who wish to participate.
USA, Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, Mexico, and other locations have
expressed interest.
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK.
The MASER is a cute device. It is not an accurate device by it’s self. It is a
very stable device. Yes, that is a subtle distinction. In this case I think it is
a pretty important one.
The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler. We have to measure
its received freq to 1 HZ or less.
Ok, 1 Hz at 437.5 MHZ is roughly 2 ppb. That is pretty much “slam dunk” accuracy
with a GPSDO. Much easier to obtain and set up in a school environment. The
key will be orbit estimation for the +/- doppler part of it. Orbit estimation is not
quite a slam dunk sort of thing. The GPSDO would also give accurate location.
Even with good orbit data, the solution still requires a good location estimate.
So I talked to the chief scientist,
and we decided to go with a public STEM related program
I’ve been down the road (from scratch to running) on STEM competitions. The
KISS principle is one to keep in mind. At the same time you do want a topic
that presents a challenge.
with it. [PLEASE
DO NOT GO PUBLIC YET
This is a public list, it’s “out” now.
this is confidential for now.] Announcement of a
competition for anyone to measure the frequency of the sat as it is in moon
orbit. So I decided to check with about 5 geographically diverse located
MASERS. ( Australia, South Africa, UK, Holland, Mexico and USA, and got
or am getting buy-in from them to make the measurement. I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
Overkill, I admit, but it is a chance for Citizen Science publicity,
Popular Science, STEM, etc..
Anyway I got a bunch of MASERS to participate and will develop a website
for people to measure the freq and send in their "answer". We will have
(are looking for) sponsors that will pay prizes or wall paper awards, for
very close accurate measurements.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this. I will
CC others to see if they want to play. Other frequency references used may
be commercial variations of
Cesium Beam and Rubidium references. But the King Kong in accuracy is the
MASER. I got to learn a bit about the MASER they had at Arecibo when I was
there. And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Arecibo may play on this event next year. So, you only need modest yagis
to pick up the Sat at moon distances on 437.5 mhz should be fun...
The Goldstone MASER; above:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvtimecode.htm
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/history-radio-station-wwv
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/wwv-and-wwvh-digital-time-code-and-broadcast-format
See/Search Also:
Precise Time and Time Interval Clocks Time Frames and Frequency, James R.
Clynch Navy Postgraduate School.
Introduction to Frequency Standards by Lindon Lewis
Interested? Get back to me to start planning for the 2018 launch, and
cubesat in lunar orbit, exact date not known.
Best, 73, Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol apolloeme@gmail.comloeme@gmail.com
Bob
"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries, is not "Eureka, I have found it!" but:
"That's funny..." ----Isaac Asimov
<masergoldstone.jpg>_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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and follow the instructions there.
Pat,
I am not a ham, but would be interested in participating if there is someone in my neck of the woods that needs access to timing gear. I am in western norway, near stavanger. I have a hydrogen maser and many other precision oscillators.
Ole
- nov. 2017 kl. 22:26 skrev Patrick Barthelow apolloeme@gmail.com:
From me, Pat a newbie, second post:
A new project, STEM opportunity. A STEM/CitizenScience/Ham Space Science
project. Kids welcome.
In formative stages so this is for internal discussion, not for public
announcements yet.
Will do a frequency measurement of a Cubesat at about 437 mhz that will
orbit the Moon in 2018.
Can be received by modest yagi antennas while orbiting the moon.
Challenge is to get/use/build precision frequency references and counters,
and measure the carrier frequency. Cesium, Rubidium, MASER, GPS based,
commercial standards, and their derivations all welcome.
Have found 4 (and More) more hydrogen line masers in diverse locations
around the world, who wish to participate.
USA, Netherlands, South Africa, Australia, Mexico, and other locations have
expressed interest.
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK. The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler. We have to measure
its received freq to 1 HZ or less. So I talked to the chief scientist,
and we decided to go with a public STEM related program with it. [PLEASE
DO NOT GO PUBLIC YET this is confidential for now.] Announcement of a
competition for anyone to measure the frequency of the sat as it is in moon
orbit. So I decided to check with about 5 geographically diverse located
MASERS. ( Australia, South Africa, UK, Holland, Mexico and USA, and got
or am getting buy-in from them to make the measurement. I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
Overkill, I admit, but it is a chance for Citizen Science publicity,
Popular Science, STEM, etc..
Anyway I got a bunch of MASERS to participate and will develop a website
for people to measure the freq and send in their "answer". We will have
(are looking for) sponsors that will pay prizes or wall paper awards, for
very close accurate measurements.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this. I will
CC others to see if they want to play. Other frequency references used may
be commercial variations of
Cesium Beam and Rubidium references. But the King Kong in accuracy is the
MASER. I got to learn a bit about the MASER they had at Arecibo when I was
there. And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Arecibo may play on this event next year. So, you only need modest yagis
to pick up the Sat at moon distances on 437.5 mhz should be fun...
The Goldstone MASER; above:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvtimecode.htm
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/history-radio-station-wwv
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-se
rvices/wwv-and-wwvh-digital-time-code-and-broadcast-format
See/Search Also:
Precise Time and Time Interval Clocks Time Frames and Frequency, James R.
Clynch Navy Postgraduate School.
Introduction to Frequency Standards by Lindon Lewis
Interested? Get back to me to start planning for the 2018 launch, and
cubesat in lunar orbit, exact date not known.
Best, 73, Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol apolloeme@gmail.comloeme@gmail.com
"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries, is not "Eureka, I have found it!" but:
"That's funny..." ----Isaac Asimov
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:26:18 -0800
Patrick Barthelow apolloeme@gmail.com wrote:
I am a member of Team Alpha Cubesat. We and some other teams are in the
NASA CUBEQUEST challenge. Launching next year a 6u cubesat to lunar
orbit. I am not an expert at the freq measurement aspect of this, so, I am
a Newbie. With tons of questions, but I was surprised how quickly a check
of the world's Hydrogen line MASERS got many to offer to come on board.
MASER is overkill, but that is OK. The Chief Scientist of the project is
in the USA and wants to make measurements to the HZ level, at 437 mhz so
with MASERS and Cesium, Rubidium we are overkill but it could generate
STEM/Citizen Science participation. That is what we are doing. So the
satellite will be on 437.5 mhz plus minus doppler.
Is there a scientific experiment behind this? Or is it just a cool
thing to show?
I was surprised
they did not just say go away... a half million dollar MASER is, or should
be busy with similar but necessary measurements from paying customers.
It's not like you are taking away maser-time from someone else.
At most you are using one of the free output ports of the distribution
amplifier.
This is like a modern day Frequency Measurement Test that ARRL did years
ago. I will in fact call ARRL to see if they want to play in this.
They are still running those. And quite a few get within 1Hz under more
difficult conditions than measuring a satellites frequency.
And now know a school in Europe a Technical Instrumentation
school, that offers a project to build a Hydrogen Line Maser using modern
simpler, cheaper methods and hardware.
Oh? Really? Which school is that? And is the documentation to this
project available somewhere?
Attila Kinali
--
You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alters their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit the views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that needs altering. -- The Doctor
Orbital determination from Doppler shift is, IMHO, a far more interesting
and fun STEM project than measuring an absolute frequency. And it does not
require MASERs, it only requires low-grade amateur equipment.
Amateur "Crowdsourcing" of orbital data goes at least as far back to ARRL
collecting Sputnik reception reports both by traffic nets and audio tape.
Doppler shift for a VHF transmitter in low earth orbit is several 10's of
kHz over a period of minutes and this pass-information is incredibly useful
for orbit determination.
And science and technology students have been participating in these
determinations for decades too. A very nice review of the work done 25
years ago by students, was published in QST by N6XT:
http://www.setileague.org/articles/ham/kepler.pdf
Tim N3QE