(no subject)
Hello
I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this has
already been reported on the list.
Ole
Hi
Located just outside Bordeaux ….. ROAD TRIP !!!!
I don’t think there’s been much mentioned about them before. It’s interesting that their
main sales thrust so far seems to be China and India.
Bob
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen opronningen@gmail.com wrote:
Hello
I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this has
already been reported on the list.
Ole
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
It hasn't been discussed before that I can recall.
But its a cold RB clock and though it stable its still a secondary
reference.
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
Located just outside Bordeaux ….. ROAD TRIP !!!!
I don’t think there’s been much mentioned about them before. It’s
interesting that their
main sales thrust so far seems to be China and India.
Bob
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen opronningen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello
I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this
has
already been reported on the list.
Ole
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
In message CAD2JfAjERxW6FoNsQYLn8n8VjRvnYrHz8SVACTeNU147W=287g@mail.gmail.com, paul swed writes:
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Could be because hydrogen masers are dual-use under the Waasenaar Arrangement ?
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Hi,
On 08/19/2017 09:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen wrote:
Hello
I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this has
already been reported on the list.
When we saw it in their booth during the EFTF-IFCS conference, they
where reluctant to give a price. Seems it just getting out on the
market. It is indeed an interesting option.
I would like to know more about the details of operation, to see what
capabilities it has to be built into an operations environment.
It would also be interesting to see how the long-term looks as measured
against TAI/UTC.
Cheers,
Magnus
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 08:50:59 +0000
"Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Could be because hydrogen masers are dual-use under the Waasenaar Arrangement ?
As far as I can tell, there is no explicit mention of atomic
clocks. But the list of dual use electronics is long and broad.
E.g. Section 3. A. 1. b. 10. covers basically all low noise
frequency sources. Including just a simple low-noise XO.
Does anyone have more specific knowledge?
Attila Kinali
--
You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alters their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit the views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that needs altering. -- The Doctor
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 16:46:29 -0400
paul swed paulswedb@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen opronningen@gmail.com
I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this
has
already been reported on the list.
They presented their clock at EFTF/IFCS a month ago.
They are still characterizing it (i.e. they put one
up at SYRTE and measure what it's doing), but sofar
the results look quite good.
The paper will be put online in a couple of weeks/months
on the EFTF homepage for everyone to read.
I will refrain from recounting what I have seen,
as I forgot too many of the details and might be more
wrong than right. Sorry about that.
It hasn't been discussed before that I can recall.
But its a cold RB clock and though it stable its still a secondary
reference.
Err.. no. It is a primary standard. The difference between a primary
and a secondary standard is, that the primary has a guaranteed accuracy
without calibration, while the secondary standard is "just" stable,
but can be off a little bit. These MuClocks do not need calibartion
at all, as they are interogating (almost) completely undisturbed
atoms in vacuum, in free fall.
But they use a secondary realisation of the second as defined by
the BIPM.
Attila Kinali
--
You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alters their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit the views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that needs altering. -- The Doctor
On 08/20/2017 10:50 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message CAD2JfAjERxW6FoNsQYLn8n8VjRvnYrHz8SVACTeNU147W=287g@mail.gmail.com, paul swed writes:
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Could be because hydrogen masers are dual-use under the Waasenaar Arrangement ?
No, hydrogen masers seems to be without that restriction as far as I know.
Cheers,
Magnus
In message 20170820120742.c48c69758cc9fa4856ab059f@kinali.ch, Attila Kinali writes:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 08:50:59 +0000
"Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Could be because hydrogen masers are dual-use under the Waasenaar Arrangement ?
As far as I can tell, there is no explicit mention of atomic
clocks.
There very much is:
3. A. 2. g. Atomic frequency standards being any of the following:
1. "Space-qualified";
2. Non-rubidium and having a long-term stability less (better) than
1 x 10 -11 /month; or
3. Non-"space-qualified" and having all of the following:
a. Being a rubidium standard;
b. Long-term stability less (better) than 1 x 10 -11 /month; and
c. Total power consumption of less than 1 Watt;
The product in question drives directly through the loophole in point 2[1]
But the list of dual use electronics is long and broad.
E.g. Section 3. A. 1. b. 10. covers basically all low noise
frequency sources. Including just a simple low-noise XO.
Does anyone have more specific knowledge?
Knowledge ? No. Some Experience ? Yes.
The people who wrote the list very much know why they put things
onto it, and in the process of narrowly tailoring the restrictions
often give more away than they probably should.
Depending on your hobbies, you can get some pretty interesting
project ideas by reading the list[2]. (3.A.3 anyone ? or
how about 9.B.6 ?)
The civil servants who administer the lists in the foreign ministries
are seldom rocket engineers and will usually administer the list
strictly to the letter, rather than talk to one.
Poul-Henning
[1] I've always wondered about that rule and I suspect it is a
mistake. Knowing who is on this list, I imagine that the next
revision will read the far more sensible: "Non-rubidium or
having ..."
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
On Sun, 20 Aug 2017 11:28:17 +0000
"Poul-Henning Kamp" phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
As far as I can tell, there is no explicit mention of atomic
clocks.
There very much is:
Oops... missed that one. Sorry about that.
(I wonder how. I am sure I searched for "atomic")
But the list of dual use electronics is long and broad.
E.g. Section 3. A. 1. b. 10. covers basically all low noise
frequency sources. Including just a simple low-noise XO.
Does anyone have more specific knowledge?
Knowledge ? No. Some Experience ? Yes.
My condolences. I only had to deal with ITAR as a buyer once.
That was enough for a lifetime.
The people who wrote the list very much know why they put things
onto it, and in the process of narrowly tailoring the restrictions
often give more away than they probably should.
Yes. I skimmed through some of the electronic restrictions.
Given that a lot of SDR can be used in one of those ways listed,
it's damn easy to "accidentally" build something that has export
restrictions on it.
[1] I've always wondered about that rule and I suspect it is a
mistake. Knowing who is on this list, I imagine that the next
revision will read the far more sensible: "Non-rubidium or
having ..."
Yes, singling out Rubidium is kind of weird.
Any guesses as for why?
Attila Kinali
--
You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alters their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit the views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the
facts that needs altering. -- The Doctor