Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage [Was: Anyone (ideally in the UK) ...]
In message CANX10hCYMEq=fnT7o01bEpKSjgvbTUHhAb77x2GJYR86CuVHow@mail.gmail.com, "Dr. David Kirkby
(Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" writes:
On 2 January 2017 at 18:14, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
Take the average of the two, and use the low max and high min as limits
QED: 230V +/- 6% = [216..244]
Do you have a reference to this +6%? I've heard from various sources that
the UK is 230 -6%/+10%. If the EU dictates otherwise, then I'm certainly
over the 6% limit. I may or may not be over the 10% limit.
There was a transitional range, but I belive it has expired.
In 240V countries it was -6%/+10%.
In 220V countries it was -10%/+6%
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
I think you meant :
In 240V countries it was -10%/+6%.
In 220V countries it was -6%/+10%
Cheers
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 04 January 2017 09:34
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement; Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA
There was a transitional range, but I belive it has expired.
In 240V countries it was -6%/+10%.
In 220V countries it was -10%/+6%
On 4 January 2017 at 09:34, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
Do you have a reference to this +6%? I've heard from various sources that
the UK is 230 -6%/+10%. If the EU dictates otherwise, then I'm certainly
over the 6% limit. I may or may not be over the 10% limit.
There was a transitional range, but I belive it has expired.
In 240V countries it was -6%/+10%.
In 220V countries it was -10%/+6%
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to
the meter as I could. One of the phases goes via a 100 A switch to the
garage. I measured on the input of that switch. At 230+10% the maximum
permissible is 253 V, but mine went to 255.10 V. That was measured on a
Tektronix DMM916 (40,000 counter) meter, which has not been calibrated
since I bought it new about 20 years ago.
I spoke to a friend of mine who worked at the CEGB. He thought I might have
a tough time getting the electricity company to do anything about 2.1 V if
it was expensive for them to do.
I was going to report my findings today at
http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/internet/en/power-cuts/report-it/report-general-issue-form/
but having spoken to him, I think I'll monitor for a few more nights and
see if the problem gets worst than 2.1 V outside the specification.
The specification of the meter is +/- 0.7% + 4 counts, so measuring at 253
V (maximum permissible mains voltage), the meter specification is +/- 1.81
V, so there's no doubt that a measurement of 2.10 V above the maximum with
a meter that's not recently been calibrated, is a bit on the dubious side.
Perhaps I need something a bit more convincing before reporting this. I was
thinking of buying a Keysight handheld, but whilst some are cheap, anything
with a reasonable amount of functionality is quite expensive.
Dave
Time to call your supply co.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
Sent: 04 January 2017 13:42
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA
I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to the meter as I could.
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT,
UK.
Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.
http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please)
On 4 January 2017 at 14:06, David C. Partridge <
david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:
Time to call your supply co.
Dave
I think I'll wait a few more days and collect some more data. I'm just too
close to the upper limit to be confident it is not the uncertainty in my
instruments.
I'd also feel a bit happier if the meter was not 20 years old and had a
valid calibration certificate. I just phoned Tektronix and they want £160
(GBP) + VAT to calibrate this 6000 count handheld DMM. Ouch. I will not
bother with that.
Keysight are quoting $210.00 (USD) to do a 6.5 digit 3457A. That's more
attractive, but a 3457A is not really suited to logging data next to an
electricity meter. It is just not practical to get a GPIB connection there.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
Sent: 04 January 2017 13:42
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA
I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to
the meter as I could.
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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On 4 January 2017 at 14:25, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
I just phoned Tektronix and they want £160 (GBP) + VAT to calibrate this
6000 count handheld DMM. Ouch. I will not bother with that.
Sorry, 60,000 touch - 4 3/4 digits.
Hi David. I've been told that in Canada the residential supply voltage in a neighbourhood is often set to account for the voltage drop in typical residential branch circuits.
The last time the supply voltage in my home was checked it read 125 volts from each "service pole" to neutral or 250 volts from service pole to service pole. The voltage on most of my normal branch circuits was typically 122 volts or so. The minor issue for me is that I had a number of dedicated branch circuits using larger than normal wire installed that only served one load each so the voltage drop on those circuits was negligible.
(I also had the electrical service upgraded which involved larger supply conductors to the house which in turn would also have had less voltage drop.)
Good luck.
Mark Spencer
On Jan 4, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote:
On 4 January 2017 at 09:34, Poul-Henning Kamp phk@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
Do you have a reference to this +6%? I've heard from various sources that
the UK is 230 -6%/+10%. If the EU dictates otherwise, then I'm certainly
over the 6% limit. I may or may not be over the 10% limit.
There was a transitional range, but I belive it has expired.
In 240V countries it was -6%/+10%.
In 220V countries it was -10%/+6%
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to
the meter as I could. One of the phases goes via a 100 A switch to the
garage. I measured on the input of that switch. At 230+10% the maximum
permissible is 253 V, but mine went to 255.10 V. That was measured on a
Tektronix DMM916 (40,000 counter) meter, which has not been calibrated
since I bought it new about 20 years ago.
I spoke to a friend of mine who worked at the CEGB. He thought I might have
a tough time getting the electricity company to do anything about 2.1 V if
it was expensive for them to do.
I was going to report my findings today at
http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/internet/en/power-cuts/report-it/report-general-issue-form/
but having spoken to him, I think I'll monitor for a few more nights and
see if the problem gets worst than 2.1 V outside the specification.
The specification of the meter is +/- 0.7% + 4 counts, so measuring at 253
V (maximum permissible mains voltage), the meter specification is +/- 1.81
V, so there's no doubt that a measurement of 2.10 V above the maximum with
a meter that's not recently been calibrated, is a bit on the dubious side.
Perhaps I need something a bit more convincing before reporting this. I was
thinking of buying a Keysight handheld, but whilst some are cheap, anything
with a reasonable amount of functionality is quite expensive.
Dave
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
In message CANX10hDU56pOQ1kQAbDBGLSS6U0D=AMp+=D7cajBhxb+zKDTfA@mail.gmail.com
, "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" writes:
I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to
the meter as I could.
There is a very specific procedure for measuring this and it averages
over some number of seconds which I have forgotten.
Peaks happen all the time when stuff turns on and off.
I spoke to a friend of mine who worked at the CEGB. He thought I might have
a tough time getting the electricity company to do anything about 2.1 V if
it was expensive for them to do.
It's cheap.
All transformers have "Winding-couplers", basically switches that
pick how many windings to use for the exact same reason.
After they buried the distribution here, the voltage rose.
I called them and explained it was above limits for many minutes
at a time (causing my solar inverter to stop).
A truck popped around, cut power to the local area, and dropped a
couple of volts on the transformer, turned power on again and the
problem was fixed.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.