MV
Martin VE3OAT
Thu, Apr 6, 2017 11:53 PM
Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that
Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North
America have anything to do with it?
... Martin VE3OAT
Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this year.
I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out which system
to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather than WWVB.
Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that
Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North
America have anything to do with it?
... Martin VE3OAT
Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
>
> On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this year.
> I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out which system
> to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather than WWVB.
>
BK
Bob kb8tq
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 1:25 AM
Hi
I’m sure it would have happily corrected for summer time in Europe two weeks later …. Provided (of course) it got the switch
codes from DCF77 to tell it when to do so. My guess is that the tiny little watch antenna isn’t very good picking up time code
from the other side of the Atlantic :) As I understand the beast it makes no attempt to work out when a shift should happen. It
simply pulls data off of the RF signal to tell it what to do.
Bob
On Apr 6, 2017, at 7:53 PM, Martin VE3OAT ve3oat@storm.ca wrote:
Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North America have anything to do with it?
... Martin VE3OAT
Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this year.
I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out which system
to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather than WWVB.
Hi
I’m sure it would have happily corrected for summer time in Europe two weeks later …. Provided (of course) it got the switch
codes from DCF77 to tell it when to do so. My guess is that the tiny little watch antenna isn’t very good picking up time code
from the other side of the Atlantic :) As I understand the beast it makes no attempt to work out when a shift should happen. It
simply pulls data off of the RF signal to tell it what to do.
Bob
> On Apr 6, 2017, at 7:53 PM, Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat@storm.ca> wrote:
>
> Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North America have anything to do with it?
>
> ... Martin VE3OAT
>
> Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
>>
>> On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this year.
>> I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out which system
>> to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather than WWVB.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
PS
paul swed
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 12:08 PM
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:25 PM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
I’m sure it would have happily corrected for summer time in Europe two
weeks later …. Provided (of course) it got the switch
codes from DCF77 to tell it when to do so. My guess is that the tiny
little watch antenna isn’t very good picking up time code
from the other side of the Atlantic :) As I understand the beast it makes
no attempt to work out when a shift should happen. It
simply pulls data off of the RF signal to tell it what to do.
Bob
On Apr 6, 2017, at 7:53 PM, Martin VE3OAT ve3oat@storm.ca wrote:
Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that
Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North
America have anything to do with it?
... Martin VE3OAT
Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this
I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out
to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Tom
Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:25 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I’m sure it would have happily corrected for summer time in Europe two
> weeks later …. Provided (of course) it got the switch
> codes from DCF77 to tell it when to do so. My guess is that the tiny
> little watch antenna isn’t very good picking up time code
> from the other side of the Atlantic :) As I understand the beast it makes
> no attempt to work out when a shift should happen. It
> simply pulls data off of the RF signal to tell it what to do.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 6, 2017, at 7:53 PM, Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat@storm.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Bob, if you had your watch set to European time, could the fact that
> Europe changes to daylight time about two weeks after we do in North
> America have anything to do with it?
> >
> > ... Martin VE3OAT
> >
> > Bob (KB8TW) wrote :
> >>
> >> On a side note, my Citizen WWVB watch missed the change to DST this
> year.
> >> I still had it set to European time and it was not able to figure out
> which system
> >> to update to. I suppose it also may have been looking for DCF77 rather
> than WWVB.
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
TV
Tom Van Baak
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 5:03 PM
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors. Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough. Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some experiments. The obvious ones are:
1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors. Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough. Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
BK
Bob kb8tq
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 5:11 PM
Hi
Since it’s a magnetic stepper motor, how about a magnetic (coil) sensor?
Based on past data, anything past 1us is massive overkill. A mag sensor
with a ~100 KHz bandwidth should be a do-able sort of thing. A couple dozen
turns of wire around a suitable ferrite rod might be enough.
Bob
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors. Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough. Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
Since it’s a magnetic stepper motor, how about a magnetic (coil) sensor?
Based on past data, anything past 1us is massive overkill. A mag sensor
with a ~100 KHz bandwidth should be a do-able sort of thing. A couple dozen
turns of wire around a suitable ferrite rod might be enough.
Bob
> On Apr 7, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote:
>
>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
>
>
> I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
>
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
>
> I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some experiments. The obvious ones are:
>
> 1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
>
> 2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors. Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough. Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and they do NOT drive 50R!
>
>
> If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and low-power factor.
>
> /tvb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
>
>
> Tom
> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am receiver.
> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
JA
John Ackermann N8UR
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 5:16 PM
Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of PaulS's de-PSKers?
On Apr 7, 2017, 1:04 PM, at 1:04 PM, Tom Van Baak tvb@LeapSecond.com wrote:
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of PaulS's de-PSKers?
On Apr 7, 2017, 1:04 PM, at 1:04 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote:
>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
>receiver.
>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
>the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
>used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
>to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
>
>
>I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
>
>http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
>
>I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
>experiments. The obvious ones are:
>
>1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
>different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
>clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
>
>2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
>variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
>tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
>Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
>Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
>stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
>a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
>picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
>signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
>they do NOT drive 50R!
>
>
>If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
>get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
>the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
>a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
>applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
>receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
>low-power factor.
>
>/tvb
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
><time-nuts@febo.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
>
>
>Tom
>Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
>receiver.
>It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>Regards
>Paul
>WB8TSL
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>To unsubscribe, go to
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>and follow the instructions there.
MS
Mike Seguin
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 5:18 PM
Does anyone know of a clock with digital readout that uses the CME-8000?
Tnx,
Mike
On 2017-04-07 13:03, Tom Van Baak wrote:
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's
nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter,
or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note
the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels,
and they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based
on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be
like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
Does anyone know of a clock with digital readout that uses the CME-8000?
Tnx,
Mike
On 2017-04-07 13:03, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
>> receiver.
>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
> the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
> used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's
> nice to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
>
>
> I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
>
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
>
> I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
> experiments. The obvious ones are:
>
> 1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
> different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
> clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
>
> 2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
> variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
> tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
> Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
> Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
> stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
> a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter,
> or picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note
> the signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels,
> and they do NOT drive 50R!
>
>
> If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
> get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based
> on the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be
> like a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
> applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
> receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
> low-power factor.
>
> /tvb
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
>
>
> Tom
> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
> receiver.
> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
---
73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
BK
Bob kb8tq
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 7:20 PM
On Apr 7, 2017, at 1:16 PM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of PaulS's de-PSKers?
Unless it shows up on one of the test points on the photo’s, I suspect not. The epoxy over wire bond construction
approach is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
The good news is that they do prove the new modulation works pretty darn well in a number of locations. That at least
adds to the justification to do up some sort of receiver that works with it.
Bob
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi
> On Apr 7, 2017, at 1:16 PM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
>
> Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of PaulS's de-PSKers?
Unless it shows up on one of the test points on the photo’s, I suspect not. The epoxy over wire bond construction
approach is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
The good news is that they do prove the new modulation works pretty darn well in a number of locations. That at least
adds to the justification to do up some sort of receiver that works with it.
Bob
>
> On Apr 7, 2017, 1:04 PM, at 1:04 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com> wrote:
>>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
>> receiver.
>>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
>> the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
>> used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
>> to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
>>
>>
>> I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
>>
>> http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
>>
>> I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
>> experiments. The obvious ones are:
>>
>> 1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
>> different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
>> clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
>>
>> 2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
>> variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
>> tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
>> Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
>> Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
>> stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
>> a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
>> picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
>> signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
>> they do NOT drive 50R!
>>
>>
>> If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
>> get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
>> the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
>> a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
>> applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
>> receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
>> low-power factor.
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>> <time-nuts@febo.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
>>
>>
>> Tom
>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
>> receiver.
>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
PS
paul swed
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 9:36 PM
Hello to the group. No there is not a way to bring that information out.
In fact it samples things much like other Time nuts threads have been
discussing on GPS.
It then stores the samples and figures out the data. So every 1.5 minutes
you get a complete sentence. Its actually a bit more tricky then that
because there are several modes to operate with. After getting a sentence
you can operate in a short mode that allows the system to figure out the
start of a minute and the tick.
So that all sounds very bad. But actually its not.
The sentence is quite complex especially with the error coding. Then there
are also bits you simply can't easily determine because they can be
changed. (Not that I have actually seen this) Obtaining the sentence allows
you to fabricate the next sentences and then flip the incoming carrier one
way or the other to remove the BPSK.
That is exactly how the cheat'n-d-psk-r works though I just grab GPS time
and fabricate the message straight out. This all requires 64 bit variables
and math.
Yes I could indeed use this wwvb signal. Just lazy and the cheatn d-psk-r
GPS works very well so have not been motivated to change.
Tom thanks for Orens email.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Bob kb8tq kb8tq@n1k.org wrote:
On Apr 7, 2017, at 1:16 PM, John Ackermann N8UR jra@febo.com wrote:
Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get
raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of
PaulS's de-PSKers?
Unless it shows up on one of the test points on the photo’s, I suspect
not. The epoxy over wire bond construction
approach is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
The good news is that they do prove the new modulation works pretty darn
well in a number of locations. That at least
adds to the justification to do up some sort of receiver that works with
it.
Bob
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
experiments. The obvious ones are:
-
See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
-
See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
they do NOT drive 50R!
If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
low-power factor.
/tvb
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul swed" paulswedb@gmail.com
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
Tom
Very good catch it is not the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
receiver.
It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hello to the group. No there is not a way to bring that information out.
In fact it samples things much like other Time nuts threads have been
discussing on GPS.
It then stores the samples and figures out the data. So every 1.5 minutes
you get a complete sentence. Its actually a bit more tricky then that
because there are several modes to operate with. After getting a sentence
you can operate in a short mode that allows the system to figure out the
start of a minute and the tick.
So that all sounds very bad. But actually its not.
The sentence is quite complex especially with the error coding. Then there
are also bits you simply can't easily determine because they can be
changed. (Not that I have actually seen this) Obtaining the sentence allows
you to fabricate the next sentences and then flip the incoming carrier one
way or the other to remove the BPSK.
That is exactly how the cheat'n-d-psk-r works though I just grab GPS time
and fabricate the message straight out. This all requires 64 bit variables
and math.
Yes I could indeed use this wwvb signal. Just lazy and the cheatn d-psk-r
GPS works very well so have not been motivated to change.
Tom thanks for Orens email.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> > On Apr 7, 2017, at 1:16 PM, John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Is there any way to derive carrier phase from these chips? Or to get
> raw modulation data that might make it usable as the front end to one of
> PaulS's de-PSKers?
>
> Unless it shows up on one of the test points on the photo’s, I suspect
> not. The epoxy over wire bond construction
> approach is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
>
> The good news is that they do prove the new modulation works pretty darn
> well in a number of locations. That at least
> adds to the justification to do up some sort of receiver that works with
> it.
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > On Apr 7, 2017, 1:04 PM, at 1:04 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@LeapSecond.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
> >> receiver.
> >>> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
> >>
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> I can confirm (from talking with the guys backing it) that, yes, it's
> >> the EverSet ES100, in die form (CoB). I believe you and I have both
> >> used the early Xtendwave dev kits with the ES100 as SMT part. It's nice
> >> to see the chip still lives and finally made it to a product!
> >>
> >>
> >> I uploaded more ultrAtomic info and tear-down photos:
> >>
> >> http://leapsecond.com/pages/ultratomic/
> >>
> >> I encourage those of you who just bought these clocks to do some
> >> experiments. The obvious ones are:
> >>
> >> 1) See how long it takes to acquire the correct time, at all sorts of
> >> different and difficult environments, compared to the traditional WWVB
> >> clocks. Check for off-by-one second, or minute, or hour errors.
> >>
> >> 2) See how accurate they really are. For clocks like this I use a
> >> variety of piezo sensors (feel the tick), acoustic sensors (hear the
> >> tick), optical sensors (see the tick), and mostly electrical sensors.
> >> Some of these are passive (non-destructive) timings and good enough.
> >> Others require some level of disassembly but are more precise. For a
> >> stepper motor clock it's easy to tap onto the coil connections and get
> >> a sharp pulse every second or two. Then use a time interval counter, or
> >> picPET, or TICC, or PC-based PPS-capture to collect readings. Note the
> >> signal level is usually low power and below typical TTL levels, and
> >> they do NOT drive 50R!
> >>
> >>
> >> If all goes well, we can soon talk about a time-nuts special where we
> >> get someone to make a timing board or disciplined timing board based on
> >> the ES100 chip. The bad news is that at the same price it would be like
> >> a million times worse than GPS. The good news is that lots of
> >> applications need only ms level timing; there are places where WWVB is
> >> receivable and GNSS is not; and then there's the redundancy and
> >> low-power factor.
> >>
> >> /tvb
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "paul swed" <paulswedb@gmail.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> >> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 5:08 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The ultraAtomic clock for home
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >> Very good catch it is *not* the cme8000 chip. Thats a classic am
> >> receiver.
> >> It is the everset chip. Sorry for mis-leading.
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >> WB8TSL
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
CS
Charles Steinmetz
Fri, Apr 7, 2017 10:45 PM
The epoxy over wire bond construction approach
is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
It is also extremely unreliable, particularly WRT environmental effects
such as temperature changes, humidity, and atmospheric pollutants. In
my view, it is unsuitable for use in anything but dirt cheap, purely
disposable devices like greeting-card audio players and disposable cameras.
Best regards.
Charles
Bob wrote:
> The epoxy over wire bond construction approach
> is low cost, and not very experimenter friendly.
It is also extremely unreliable, particularly WRT environmental effects
such as temperature changes, humidity, and atmospheric pollutants. In
my view, it is unsuitable for use in anything but dirt cheap, purely
disposable devices like greeting-card audio players and disposable cameras.
Best regards.
Charles
