Re: Low Cost Temperature sensor The ZNI1000 sensor is based on nickel. As such it must be ferromagnetic. It would thus be absolutely unacceptable in an H-maser where every single small item inside the magnetic shields must be tested for residual ferromagnetism. If ferromagnetism is detectable the item is unacceptable. This applies to every small screw, thermistor, varactor etc. Unfortunately manufacturers of thermistors etc don't state what the wires are made of and it may vary between batches of the same nominal item. This is one of the problems with making H-masers. Though nominally made of copper and zinc, common brass often shows residual ferro magnetism because it is "recovered" metal and is contaminated with iron. That brass must never be used in a magnetic instrument have been known for a very long time. I don't know off-hand if Caesium or Rubidium standards are as sensitive in this regard as H-masers. I guess I could find out from Vanier and Audoin. John P On 17 Jan 2017, at 14:14, time-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > time-nuts@febo.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > time-nuts-request@febo.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > time-nuts-owner@febo.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) > 2. Re: wifi with time sync (David) > 3. Re: wifi with time sync (David) > 4. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000 > (Mark Sims) > 5. HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (cdelect@juno.com) > 6. Re: HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (paul swed) > 7. Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Ed Palmer) > 8. Re: Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Magnus Danielson) > 9. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > (Mark Sims) > 10. How to create a super Rb standard (Perry Sandeen) > 11. Low CostTemperature sensor (Perry Sandeen) > 12. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) > 13. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) > 14. TICC update? (Scott Newell) > 15. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Bill Hawkins) > 16. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) > 17. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Jason Ball) > 18. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Tom Miller) > 19. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Charles Steinmetz) > 20. Re: How to create a super Rb standard (Bob Camp) > 21. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Scott Stobbe) > 22. Re: TICC update? (John Ackermann N8UR) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:32 -0500 > From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > 9390-6000) > Message-ID: <de337749-1b3f-e367-06b0-03b0f9c463a7@pumpkinbrook.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't > from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I > guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have > anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and > date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the > timecode generation. > > Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer. > > On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote: >> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing. If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere. >> >>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com a écrit : >>> >>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where the reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low E-12’s) and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked LEDs go out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems confirmed that the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone has a similar module tucked away somewhere. >>> >>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Paul >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. » >> George Bernard Shaw >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0600 > From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync > Message-ID: <q2aq7chk7dcr4ei0m1ut1rlo965aqta04g@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and > frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all. I have run > across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old > desktop hardware. > > On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety of low level >> traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing something weird and >> that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the *why* the bumps >> occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they are really >> enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing with them >> in the mix is the big question. >> >> Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:22:15 -0600 > From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync > Message-ID: <rbaq7ctqvikmhrl9ae8d5sfp1k0eke5422@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi > compatibility. They exist on their own network in the same ISM band > so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi. Online reports say > poorly under crowded band conditions. > > On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote: > >> Hi >> >> The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able to set up WiFi >> speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in each room. They likely >> also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using time of arrival. They very >> much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the building). Since they want to >> roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They need their gizmo to work with >> the infrastructure you already have. >> >> Bob > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:39:33 +0000 > From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > 9390-6000 > Message-ID: > <MWHPR1701MB1791AED591CD66611833A936CE7D0@MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com links (serial or TCPI/IP). One is the receiver port, one will be a TICC, and two are "echo" ports. One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by the receiver and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted as standard NMEA sentences. > > One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends and then any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6. You might have to add code to send the proper messages out only when the Datum requests them. That depends upon how the Datum firmware works. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:09 -0800 > From: <cdelect@juno.com> > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum > Message-ID: <AABNH4PCDABHWWX2@smtpout51.dca.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes > and came across something that's not making any sense! > The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the > new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value > that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. > This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the > A11 module. > For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K > and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when > divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube > was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! > Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not > reflect this ratio. > For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives > 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the > Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! > I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper > temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. > Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and > if so where did they document it! > If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would > seriously overheat the tube! > > Cheers, > > Corby > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:19 -0500 > From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum > Message-ID: > <CAD2JfAh8Vq5crZfqoYrOiWHruj9CbCX9KOGN8tep_4hSm86e1Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could > prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes > from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control. > > If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge > resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if there > is anything. > > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: > >> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes >> and came across something that's not making any sense! >> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the >> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value >> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. >> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the >> A11 module. >> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K >> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when >> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube >> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! >> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not >> reflect this ratio. >> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives >> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the >> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! >> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper >> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. >> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and >> if so where did they document it! >> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would >> seriously overheat the tube! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Corby >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:01:02 -0600 > From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer@sasktel.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase > Message-ID: <587D429E.4080700@sasktel.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I was > thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service > manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding > heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at > least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? > > I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a > few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power > supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any > showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? > > Thanks, > Ed > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:42:31 +0100 > From: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: magnus@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase > Message-ID: <871613e2-3c98-e0c5-6afc-98358abb497c@rubidium.dyndns.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Ed, > > On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote: >> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I was >> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service >> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding >> heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at >> least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? >> >> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a >> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power >> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any >> showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? > > Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and > here is his comments: > > The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier > models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later > models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB > to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the > output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The > PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left > at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally > 10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a > jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo > timebase. However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase > externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref > in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:42:42 +0000 > From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > 9390-6000) > Message-ID: > <MWHPR1701MB1791594F3990F671DBC20922CE7C0@MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. > > ----------------------- > >> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:24:32 +0000 (UTC) > From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard > Message-ID: <1075986583.4637453.1484623472900@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > List > It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065. > So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules? > Regards, > Perrier > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:33:14 +0000 (UTC) > From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: <942686340.374454.1484623994181@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > List, > A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature sensor. > It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K ohm sensors. > It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > FWIW YMMY > Regards, > Perrier > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) > From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? > Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > List, > The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition. > My questions for those that have a H Maser are: > > Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? > > Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? > > Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)? > Regards, > Perrier > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) > From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? > Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > List, > The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition. > My questions for those that have a H Maser are: > > Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? > > Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? > > Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)? > Regards, > Perrier > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:07:57 -0600 > From: Scott Newell <newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] TICC update? > Message-ID: <20170117040759.BC09064686@n5tnl.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the > TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and > SMA adapters? > > -- > newell N5TNL > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:16:29 -0600 > From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> > To: "'Perry Sandeen'" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, "'Discussion of precise > time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: <3062507E35F44012ADCBDA86FA7CA47E@system072> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Perrier, > > Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. > Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as > platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures > requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog > converters. > > Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said > nothing about a platinum curve. > > I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum > RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. > > Bill Hawkins > > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry > Sandeen via time-nuts > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > > List, > A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature > sensor. > It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K > ohm sensors. > It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > FWIW YMMY > Regards, > Perrier > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:23:35 -0500 > From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > 9390-6000) > Message-ID: <CCC05CBB-FFFB-4D06-BBF8-8986EFEFB2AC@pumpkinbrook.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume you mean the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number is 26889-81, the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the GPS traffic in a prior exercise, I can confirm that it is. > >> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. >> >> ----------------------- >> >>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:41 +1100 > From: Jason Ball <jason@ball.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Cc: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: > <CAOGCNM5VMG1+9ainJGdteodN2TAdf7-p0dKm5AgHhqJzYuKAeA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? > > https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> wrote: > >> Perrier, >> >> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. >> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as >> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures >> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog >> converters. >> >> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said >> nothing about a platinum curve. >> >> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum >> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. >> >> Bill Hawkins >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >> Sandeen via time-nuts >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> >> List, >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature >> sensor. >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K >> ohm sensors. >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >> FWIW YMMY >> Regards, >> Perrier >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > -- > Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ > > jason@ball.net > vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> > callsign: vk2vjb > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:52:15 -0500 > From: "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> > To: <jason@ball.net>, "Discussion of precise time and frequency > measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: <8CF6E16948B44D838962535D0F36C2E5@FamilyHP> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; > reply-type=original > > That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Ball" <jason@ball.net> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Cc: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > > >> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? >> >> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> Perrier, >>> >>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. >>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as >>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures >>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog >>> converters. >>> >>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said >>> nothing about a platinum curve. >>> >>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum >>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. >>> >>> Bill Hawkins >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >>> Sandeen via time-nuts >>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >>> >>> List, >>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature >>> sensor. >>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K >>> ohm sensors. >>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >>> FWIW YMMY >>> Regards, >>> Perrier >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ >> >> jason@ball.net >> vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> >> callsign: vk2vjb >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:17:25 -0500 > From: Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz@yandex.com> > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: <587DE125.9070505@yandex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Tom wrote: > >> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? > > Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" > proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the > relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with > absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. > "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential > relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians > call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of > reverse current). > > Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the > "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. > Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. > His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the > active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his > article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. > > Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? > > Charles > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:20:23 -0500 > From: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> > To: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, Discussion of precise time > and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard > Message-ID: <D04DA9BA-375D-4258-A7DE-C5329CA81BE0@n1k.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi > > Since the physics package in the small Rb’s is different than the stuff in the large units, > you have some basic limits on what you can do to improve them. The main things people > have done are to modify them to turn off the temperature compensation and replace it > with some sort of precision controlled thermal enclosure. Pressure compensation is a good > idea on any of these parts (large or small). How much your particular unit benefits is a > “that depends” sort of thing. > > Bob > >> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:24 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >> >> >> List >> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065. >> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules? >> Regards, >> Perrier >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:10:12 +0000 > From: Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > Message-ID: > <CALg-KtMYS4eNfa0Zf_41M50zxi75+GLbD+SkZUbNBa9+7jUDrQ@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Thermometry based on Diode leakage current wouldn't be impossible I > suppose, you might loose some hair in the process. > > The signal levels on the opamp are goofed too. > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:19 AM Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz@yandex.com> > wrote: > >> Tom wrote: >> >> >> >>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? >> >> >> >> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" >> >> proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the >> >> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with >> >> absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. >> >> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential >> >> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians >> >> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of >> >> reverse current). >> >> >> >> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the >> >> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. >> >> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. >> >> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the >> >> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his >> >> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. >> >> >> >> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? >> >> >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:14:46 -0600 > From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Cc: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TICC update? > Message-ID: <1eb0a119-dc94-4117-8842-73fe1c166ce7@typeapp.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > ⁣Hi Scott -- > > We received the first-unit sample a couple of weeks ago and it successfully passed all tests, so we gave the go-ahead to do the production build. > > We've also sent the Contract Manufacturer the final software versions to be loaded to the Arduino as well as a set of test oscillators for unit testing. (The production code is in master at https://github.com/TAPR/TICC) > > My project for this coming weekend is to get the user documentation ready; it's also at GitHub. > > I don't know precisely where the CM is in the process right now, but we're still looking for delivery to TAPR by early February. > > You can still order: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html > > John > > ---- > > On Jan 16, 2017, 10:17 PM, at 10:17 PM, Scott Newell <newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> wrote: >> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the >> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and >> SMA adapters? >> >> -- >> newell N5TNL >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list > time-nuts@febo.com > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > ------------------------------ > > End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36 > ******************************************

Hi At least at the “it stops working” level, Rb’s are not as sensitive to residual magnetic fields as what you describe on H-masers. The scrap guys routinely mangle the shielding around small Rb’s and the parts still work when we receive them. On another level, the answer is (of course) yes. Any residual field will have an effect on a magnetically tuned frequency source. That would definitely drive the material selection for anything in or near the physics package. Bob > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:53 AM, John Ponsonby <jebponsonby@gmail.com> wrote: > > Re: Low Cost Temperature sensor > The ZNI1000 sensor is based on nickel. As such it must be ferromagnetic. It would thus be absolutely unacceptable in an H-maser where every single small item inside the magnetic shields must be tested for residual ferromagnetism. If ferromagnetism is detectable the item is unacceptable. This applies to every small screw, thermistor, varactor etc. Unfortunately manufacturers of thermistors etc don't state what the wires are made of and it may vary between batches of the same nominal item. This is one of the problems with making H-masers. Though nominally made of copper and zinc, common brass often shows residual ferro magnetism because it is "recovered" metal and is contaminated with iron. That brass must never be used in a magnetic instrument have been known for a very long time. I don't know off-hand if Caesium or Rubidium standards are as sensitive in this regard as H-masers. I guess I could find out from Vanier and Audoin. > John P > > > On 17 Jan 2017, at 14:14, time-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to >> time-nuts@febo.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> time-nuts-request@febo.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> time-nuts-owner@febo.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) >> (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) >> 2. Re: wifi with time sync (David) >> 3. Re: wifi with time sync (David) >> 4. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000 >> (Mark Sims) >> 5. HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (cdelect@juno.com) >> 6. Re: HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (paul swed) >> 7. Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Ed Palmer) >> 8. Re: Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Magnus Danielson) >> 9. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) >> (Mark Sims) >> 10. How to create a super Rb standard (Perry Sandeen) >> 11. Low CostTemperature sensor (Perry Sandeen) >> 12. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) >> 13. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) >> 14. TICC update? (Scott Newell) >> 15. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Bill Hawkins) >> 16. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) >> (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) >> 17. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Jason Ball) >> 18. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Tom Miller) >> 19. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Charles Steinmetz) >> 20. Re: How to create a super Rb standard (Bob Camp) >> 21. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Scott Stobbe) >> 22. Re: TICC update? (John Ackermann N8UR) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:32 -0500 >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum >> 9390-6000) >> Message-ID: <de337749-1b3f-e367-06b0-03b0f9c463a7@pumpkinbrook.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't >> from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I >> guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have >> anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and >> date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the >> timecode generation. >> >> Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer. >> >> On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote: >>> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing. If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere. >>> >>>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com a écrit : >>>> >>>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where the reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low E-12’s) and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked LEDs go out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems confirmed that the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone has a similar module tucked away somewhere. >>>> >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. » >>> George Bernard Shaw >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0600 >> From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync >> Message-ID: <q2aq7chk7dcr4ei0m1ut1rlo965aqta04g@4ax.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and >> frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all. I have run >> across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old >> desktop hardware. >> >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety of low level >>> traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing something weird and >>> that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the *why* the bumps >>> occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they are really >>> enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing with them >>> in the mix is the big question. >>> >>> Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:22:15 -0600 >> From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync >> Message-ID: <rbaq7ctqvikmhrl9ae8d5sfp1k0eke5422@4ax.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi >> compatibility. They exist on their own network in the same ISM band >> so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi. Online reports say >> poorly under crowded band conditions. >> >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able to set up WiFi >>> speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in each room. They likely >>> also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using time of arrival. They very >>> much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the building). Since they want to >>> roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They need their gizmo to work with >>> the infrastructure you already have. >>> >>> Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:39:33 +0000 >> From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum >> 9390-6000 >> Message-ID: >> <MWHPR1701MB1791AED591CD66611833A936CE7D0@MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com links (serial or TCPI/IP). One is the receiver port, one will be a TICC, and two are "echo" ports. One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by the receiver and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted as standard NMEA sentences. >> >> One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends and then any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6. You might have to add code to send the proper messages out only when the Datum requests them. That depends upon how the Datum firmware works. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:09 -0800 >> From: <cdelect@juno.com> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum >> Message-ID: <AABNH4PCDABHWWX2@smtpout51.dca.untd.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes >> and came across something that's not making any sense! >> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the >> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value >> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. >> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the >> A11 module. >> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K >> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when >> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube >> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! >> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not >> reflect this ratio. >> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives >> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the >> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! >> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper >> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. >> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and >> if so where did they document it! >> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would >> seriously overheat the tube! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Corby >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:19 -0500 >> From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum >> Message-ID: >> <CAD2JfAh8Vq5crZfqoYrOiWHruj9CbCX9KOGN8tep_4hSm86e1Q@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could >> prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes >> from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control. >> >> If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge >> resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if there >> is anything. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: >> >>> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes >>> and came across something that's not making any sense! >>> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the >>> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value >>> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. >>> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the >>> A11 module. >>> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K >>> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when >>> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube >>> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! >>> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not >>> reflect this ratio. >>> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives >>> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the >>> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! >>> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper >>> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. >>> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and >>> if so where did they document it! >>> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would >>> seriously overheat the tube! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Corby >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:01:02 -0600 >> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer@sasktel.net> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase >> Message-ID: <587D429E.4080700@sasktel.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I was >> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service >> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding >> heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at >> least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? >> >> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a >> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power >> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any >> showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? >> >> Thanks, >> Ed >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:42:31 +0100 >> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Cc: magnus@rubidium.se >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase >> Message-ID: <871613e2-3c98-e0c5-6afc-98358abb497c@rubidium.dyndns.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> Ed, >> >> On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote: >>> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I was >>> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service >>> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding >>> heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at >>> least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? >>> >>> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a >>> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power >>> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any >>> showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? >> >> Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and >> here is his comments: >> >> The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier >> models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later >> models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB >> to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the >> output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The >> PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left >> at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally >> 10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a >> jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo >> timebase. However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase >> externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref >> in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:42:42 +0000 >> From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum >> 9390-6000) >> Message-ID: >> <MWHPR1701MB1791594F3990F671DBC20922CE7C0@MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. >> >> ----------------------- >> >>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:24:32 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard >> Message-ID: <1075986583.4637453.1484623472900@mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> >> List >> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065. >> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules? >> Regards, >> Perrier >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:33:14 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: <942686340.374454.1484623994181@mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> List, >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature sensor. >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K ohm sensors. >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >> FWIW YMMY >> Regards, >> Perrier >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> List, >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition. >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are: >> >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? >> >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? >> >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)? >> Regards, >> Perrier >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> List, >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition. >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are: >> >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? >> >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? >> >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)? >> Regards, >> Perrier >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:07:57 -0600 >> From: Scott Newell <newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] TICC update? >> Message-ID: <20170117040759.BC09064686@n5tnl.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the >> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and >> SMA adapters? >> >> -- >> newell N5TNL >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:16:29 -0600 >> From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> >> To: "'Perry Sandeen'" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, "'Discussion of precise >> time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: <3062507E35F44012ADCBDA86FA7CA47E@system072> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Perrier, >> >> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. >> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as >> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures >> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog >> converters. >> >> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said >> nothing about a platinum curve. >> >> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum >> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. >> >> Bill Hawkins >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >> Sandeen via time-nuts >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> >> List, >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature >> sensor. >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K >> ohm sensors. >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >> FWIW YMMY >> Regards, >> Perrier >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:23:35 -0500 >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum >> 9390-6000) >> Message-ID: <CCC05CBB-FFFB-4D06-BBF8-8986EFEFB2AC@pumpkinbrook.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume you mean the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number is 26889-81, the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the GPS traffic in a prior exercise, I can confirm that it is. >> >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. >>> >>> ----------------------- >>> >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:41 +1100 >> From: Jason Ball <jason@ball.net> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Cc: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: >> <CAOGCNM5VMG1+9ainJGdteodN2TAdf7-p0dKm5AgHhqJzYuKAeA@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? >> >> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> Perrier, >>> >>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. >>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as >>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures >>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog >>> converters. >>> >>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said >>> nothing about a platinum curve. >>> >>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum >>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. >>> >>> Bill Hawkins >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >>> Sandeen via time-nuts >>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >>> >>> List, >>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature >>> sensor. >>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K >>> ohm sensors. >>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >>> FWIW YMMY >>> Regards, >>> Perrier >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ >> >> jason@ball.net >> vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> >> callsign: vk2vjb >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 18 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:52:15 -0500 >> From: "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> >> To: <jason@ball.net>, "Discussion of precise time and frequency >> measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: <8CF6E16948B44D838962535D0F36C2E5@FamilyHP> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; >> reply-type=original >> >> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jason Ball" <jason@ball.net> >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Cc: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> >> >>> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? >>> >>> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Perrier, >>>> >>>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. >>>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as >>>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures >>>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog >>>> converters. >>>> >>>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said >>>> nothing about a platinum curve. >>>> >>>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum >>>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. >>>> >>>> Bill Hawkins >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry >>>> Sandeen via time-nuts >>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM >>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >>>> >>>> List, >>>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. >>>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature >>>> sensor. >>>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K >>>> ohm sensors. >>>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. >>>> FWIW YMMY >>>> Regards, >>>> Perrier >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ >>> >>> jason@ball.net >>> vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> >>> callsign: vk2vjb >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 19 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:17:25 -0500 >> From: Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz@yandex.com> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: <587DE125.9070505@yandex.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> Tom wrote: >> >>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? >> >> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" >> proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the >> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with >> absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. >> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential >> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians >> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of >> reverse current). >> >> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the >> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. >> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. >> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the >> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his >> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. >> >> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? >> >> Charles >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 20 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:20:23 -0500 >> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> >> To: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, Discussion of precise time >> and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard >> Message-ID: <D04DA9BA-375D-4258-A7DE-C5329CA81BE0@n1k.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Hi >> >> Since the physics package in the small Rb’s is different than the stuff in the large units, >> you have some basic limits on what you can do to improve them. The main things people >> have done are to modify them to turn off the temperature compensation and replace it >> with some sort of precision controlled thermal enclosure. Pressure compensation is a good >> idea on any of these parts (large or small). How much your particular unit benefits is a >> “that depends” sort of thing. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:24 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> List >>> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065. >>> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules? >>> Regards, >>> Perrier >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 21 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:10:12 +0000 >> From: Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe@gmail.com> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor >> Message-ID: >> <CALg-KtMYS4eNfa0Zf_41M50zxi75+GLbD+SkZUbNBa9+7jUDrQ@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Thermometry based on Diode leakage current wouldn't be impossible I >> suppose, you might loose some hair in the process. >> >> The signal levels on the opamp are goofed too. >> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:19 AM Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz@yandex.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Tom wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" >>> >>> proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the >>> >>> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with >>> >>> absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. >>> >>> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential >>> >>> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians >>> >>> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of >>> >>> reverse current). >>> >>> >>> >>> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the >>> >>> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. >>> >>> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. >>> >>> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the >>> >>> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his >>> >>> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. >>> >>> >>> >>> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? >>> >>> >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 22 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:14:46 -0600 >> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> <time-nuts@febo.com> >> Cc: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TICC update? >> Message-ID: <1eb0a119-dc94-4117-8842-73fe1c166ce7@typeapp.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> ⁣Hi Scott -- >> >> We received the first-unit sample a couple of weeks ago and it successfully passed all tests, so we gave the go-ahead to do the production build. >> >> We've also sent the Contract Manufacturer the final software versions to be loaded to the Arduino as well as a set of test oscillators for unit testing. (The production code is in master at https://github.com/TAPR/TICC) >> >> My project for this coming weekend is to get the user documentation ready; it's also at GitHub. >> >> I don't know precisely where the CM is in the process right now, but we're still looking for delivery to TAPR by early February. >> >> You can still order: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html >> >> John >> >> ---- >> >> On Jan 16, 2017, 10:17 PM, at 10:17 PM, Scott Newell <newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> wrote: >>> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the >>> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and >>> SMA adapters? >>> >>> -- >>> newell N5TNL >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list >> time-nuts@febo.com >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36 >> ****************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

As an aside, some materials can change their magnetic properties after cold working/forming like stainless steel for example. On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > At least at the “it stops working” level, Rb’s are not as sensitive to > residual magnetic fields as what you > describe on H-masers. The scrap guys routinely mangle the shielding around > small Rb’s and the parts > still work when we receive them. > > On another level, the answer is (of course) yes. Any residual field will > have an effect on a magnetically tuned > frequency source. That would definitely drive the material selection for > anything in or near the physics package. > > Bob > > > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:53 AM, John Ponsonby <jebponsonby@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Re: Low Cost Temperature sensor > > The ZNI1000 sensor is based on nickel. As such it must be ferromagnetic. > It would thus be absolutely unacceptable in an H-maser where every single > small item inside the magnetic shields must be tested for residual > ferromagnetism. If ferromagnetism is detectable the item is unacceptable. > This applies to every small screw, thermistor, varactor etc. Unfortunately > manufacturers of thermistors etc don't state what the wires are made of and > it may vary between batches of the same nominal item. This is one of the > problems with making H-masers. Though nominally made of copper and zinc, > common brass often shows residual ferro magnetism because it is "recovered" > metal and is contaminated with iron. That brass must never be used in a > magnetic instrument have been known for a very long time. I don't know > off-hand if Caesium or Rubidium standards are as sensitive in this regard > as H-masers. I guess I could find out from Vanier and Audoin. > > John P > > > > > > On 17 Jan 2017, at 14:14, time-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > > > >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to > >> time-nuts@febo.com > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> time-nuts-request@febo.com > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> time-nuts-owner@febo.com > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > >> (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) > >> 2. Re: wifi with time sync (David) > >> 3. Re: wifi with time sync (David) > >> 4. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000 > >> (Mark Sims) > >> 5. HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (cdelect@juno.com) > >> 6. Re: HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (paul swed) > >> 7. Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Ed Palmer) > >> 8. Re: Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Magnus Danielson) > >> 9. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > >> (Mark Sims) > >> 10. How to create a super Rb standard (Perry Sandeen) > >> 11. Low CostTemperature sensor (Perry Sandeen) > >> 12. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) > >> 13. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen) > >> 14. TICC update? (Scott Newell) > >> 15. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Bill Hawkins) > >> 16. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000) > >> (ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com) > >> 17. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Jason Ball) > >> 18. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Tom Miller) > >> 19. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Charles Steinmetz) > >> 20. Re: How to create a super Rb standard (Bob Camp) > >> 21. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Scott Stobbe) > >> 22. Re: TICC update? (John Ackermann N8UR) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:32 -0500 > >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > >> 9390-6000) > >> Message-ID: <de337749-1b3f-e367-06b0-03b0f9c463a7@pumpkinbrook.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >> > >> I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't > >> from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I > >> guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have > >> anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and > >> date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the > >> timecode generation. > >> > >> Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer. > >> > >> On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote: > >>> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item > 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand > alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing. > If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere. > >>> > >>>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com a écrit : > >>>> > >>>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where > the reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low > E-12’s) and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked > LEDs go out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems > confirmed that the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone > has a similar module tucked away somewhere. > >>>> > >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the > 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP > part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal > of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other > ‘conversions’ before. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Paul > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by > those who have not got it. » > >>> George Bernard Shaw > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0600 > >> From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync > >> Message-ID: <q2aq7chk7dcr4ei0m1ut1rlo965aqta04g@4ax.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and > >> frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all. I have run > >> across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old > >> desktop hardware. > >> > >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety > of low level > >>> traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing > something weird and > >>> that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the > *why* the bumps > >>> occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they > are really > >>> enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing > with them > >>> in the mix is the big question. > >>> > >>> Bob > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:22:15 -0600 > >> From: David <davidwhess@gmail.com> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync > >> Message-ID: <rbaq7ctqvikmhrl9ae8d5sfp1k0eke5422@4ax.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi > >> compatibility. They exist on their own network in the same ISM band > >> so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi. Online reports say > >> poorly under crowded band conditions. > >> > >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able > to set up WiFi > >>> speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in > each room. They likely > >>> also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using > time of arrival. They very > >>> much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the > building). Since they want to > >>> roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They > need their gizmo to work with > >>> the infrastructure you already have. > >>> > >>> Bob > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:39:33 +0000 > >> From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > >> 9390-6000 > >> Message-ID: > >> <MWHPR1701MB1791AED591CD66611833A936CE7D0@MWHPR1701MB1791. > namprd17.prod.outlook.com> > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com > links (serial or TCPI/IP). One is the receiver port, one will be a TICC, > and two are "echo" ports. One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by > the receiver and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted > as standard NMEA sentences. > >> > >> One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends > and then any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6. > You might have to add code to send the proper messages out only when the > Datum requests them. That depends upon how the Datum firmware works. > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 5 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:09 -0800 > >> From: <cdelect@juno.com> > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum > >> Message-ID: <AABNH4PCDABHWWX2@smtpout51.dca.untd.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> > >> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes > >> and came across something that's not making any sense! > >> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the > >> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value > >> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. > >> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the > >> A11 module. > >> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K > >> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when > >> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube > >> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! > >> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not > >> reflect this ratio. > >> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives > >> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the > >> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! > >> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper > >> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. > >> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and > >> if so where did they document it! > >> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would > >> seriously overheat the tube! > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Corby > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 6 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:19 -0500 > >> From: paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum > >> Message-ID: > >> <CAD2JfAh8Vq5crZfqoYrOiWHruj9CbCX9KOGN8tep_4hSm86e1Q@mail. > gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could > >> prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes > >> from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control. > >> > >> If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge > >> resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if > there > >> is anything. > >> > >> Regards > >> Paul > >> WB8TSL > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes > >>> and came across something that's not making any sense! > >>> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the > >>> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value > >>> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading. > >>> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the > >>> A11 module. > >>> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K > >>> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when > >>> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube > >>> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense! > >>> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not > >>> reflect this ratio. > >>> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives > >>> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the > >>> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms! > >>> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper > >>> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube. > >>> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and > >>> if so where did they document it! > >>> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would > >>> seriously overheat the tube! > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Corby > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 7 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:01:02 -0600 > >> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer@sasktel.net> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase > >> Message-ID: <587D429E.4080700@sasktel.net> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >> > >> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I was > >> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service > >> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding > >> heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at > >> least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? > >> > >> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a > >> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power > >> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any > >> showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Ed > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 8 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:42:31 +0100 > >> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Cc: magnus@rubidium.se > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase > >> Message-ID: <871613e2-3c98-e0c5-6afc-98358abb497c@rubidium.dyndns.org> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >> > >> Ed, > >> > >> On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote: > >>> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator. I > was > >>> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase. From the service > >>> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious > regarding > >>> heat sinking. Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at > >>> least, seen it? Is there any heat sinking at all? > >>> > >>> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a > >>> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power > >>> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any > >>> showstoppers here. Does anyone have any warnings or advice? > >> > >> Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and > >> here is his comments: > >> > >> The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier > >> models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later > >> models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB > >> to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the > >> output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The > >> PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left > >> at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally > >> 10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a > >> jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo > >> timebase. However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase > >> externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref > >> in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Magnus > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 9 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:42:42 +0000 > >> From: Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > >> 9390-6000) > >> Message-ID: > >> <MWHPR1701MB1791594F3990F671DBC20922CE7C0@MWHPR1701MB1791. > namprd17.prod.outlook.com> > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > >> > >> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it show > (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP > output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. > >> > >> ----------------------- > >> > >>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the > 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP > part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal > of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other > ‘conversions’ before. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 10 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:24:32 +0000 (UTC) > >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard > >> Message-ID: <1075986583.4637453.1484623472900@mail.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> > >> List > >> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get > 5065. > >> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to > wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, > Peltier (sp) cooling modules? > >> Regards, > >> Perrier > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 11 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:33:14 +0000 (UTC) > >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: <942686340.374454.1484623994181@mail.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> List, > >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature > sensor. > >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K > ohm sensors. > >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > >> FWIW YMMY > >> Regards, > >> Perrier > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 12 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) > >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? > >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> List, > >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it > appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches > fruition. > >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are: > >> > >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? > >> > >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? > >> > >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would > it cost (rough guess is fine)? > >> Regards, > >> Perrier > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 13 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC) > >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser? > >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841@mail.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> List, > >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it > appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches > fruition. > >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are: > >> > >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost? > >> > >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating? > >> > >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would > it cost (rough guess is fine)? > >> Regards, > >> Perrier > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 14 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:07:57 -0600 > >> From: Scott Newell <newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: [time-nuts] TICC update? > >> Message-ID: <20170117040759.BC09064686@n5tnl.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >> > >> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the > >> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and > >> SMA adapters? > >> > >> -- > >> newell N5TNL > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 15 > >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:16:29 -0600 > >> From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> > >> To: "'Perry Sandeen'" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, "'Discussion of precise > >> time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: <3062507E35F44012ADCBDA86FA7CA47E@system072> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> Perrier, > >> > >> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. > >> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as > >> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures > >> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog > >> converters. > >> > >> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said > >> nothing about a platinum curve. > >> > >> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum > >> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. > >> > >> Bill Hawkins > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry > >> Sandeen via time-nuts > >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> > >> List, > >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature > >> sensor. > >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K > >> ohm sensors. > >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > >> FWIW YMMY > >> Regards, > >> Perrier > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 16 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:23:35 -0500 > >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts@pumpkinbrook.com > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum > >> 9390-6000) > >> Message-ID: <CCC05CBB-FFFB-4D06-BBF8-8986EFEFB2AC@pumpkinbrook.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >> > >> Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume > you mean the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number > is 26889-81, the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the > GPS traffic in a prior exercise, I can confirm that it is. > >> > >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it, what f/w version does it > show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)? I have a couple of CM3's configured for > TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA. > >>> > >>> ----------------------- > >>> > >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the > 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP > part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal > of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other > ‘conversions’ before. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 17 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:41 +1100 > >> From: Jason Ball <jason@ball.net> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Cc: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: > >> <CAOGCNM5VMG1+9ainJGdteodN2TAdf7-p0dKm5AgHhqJzYuKAeA@mail. > gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? > >> > >> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/ > using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> Perrier, > >>> > >>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. > >>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate > as > >>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures > >>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog > >>> converters. > >>> > >>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said > >>> nothing about a platinum curve. > >>> > >>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum > >>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. > >>> > >>> Bill Hawkins > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry > >>> Sandeen via time-nuts > >>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM > >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >>> > >>> List, > >>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > >>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature > >>> sensor. > >>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K > >>> ohm sensors. > >>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > >>> FWIW YMMY > >>> Regards, > >>> Perrier > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> -- > >> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ > >> > >> jason@ball.net > >> vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> > >> callsign: vk2vjb > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 18 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:52:15 -0500 > >> From: "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> > >> To: <jason@ball.net>, "Discussion of precise time and frequency > >> measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: <8CF6E16948B44D838962535D0F36C2E5@FamilyHP> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; > >> reply-type=original > >> > >> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Jason Ball" <jason@ball.net> > >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Cc: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa@yahoo.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> > >> > >>> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ? > >>> > >>> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/ > using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs@pobox.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Perrier, > >>>> > >>>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve. > >>>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate > as > >>>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures > >>>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog > >>>> converters. > >>>> > >>>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said > >>>> nothing about a platinum curve. > >>>> > >>>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum > >>>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point. > >>>> > >>>> Bill Hawkins > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Perry > >>>> Sandeen via time-nuts > >>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM > >>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >>>> > >>>> List, > >>>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors. > >>>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature > >>>> sensor. > >>>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt > 1K > >>>> ohm sensors. > >>>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. > >>>> FWIW YMMY > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Perrier > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> -- > >>> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/ > >>> > >>> jason@ball.net > >>> vk2vjb@google.com <vk2flnx@google.com> > >>> callsign: vk2vjb > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 19 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:17:25 -0500 > >> From: Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz@yandex.com> > >> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: <587DE125.9070505@yandex.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >> > >> Tom wrote: > >> > >>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? > >> > >> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" > >> proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the > >> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with > >> absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. > >> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential > >> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians > >> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of > >> reverse current). > >> > >> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the > >> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. > >> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. > >> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the > >> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his > >> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. > >> > >> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? > >> > >> Charles > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 20 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:20:23 -0500 > >> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> > >> To: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa@yahoo.com>, Discussion of precise time > >> and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard > >> Message-ID: <D04DA9BA-375D-4258-A7DE-C5329CA81BE0@n1k.org> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> Since the physics package in the small Rb’s is different than the stuff > in the large units, > >> you have some basic limits on what you can do to improve them. The main > things people > >> have done are to modify them to turn off the temperature compensation > and replace it > >> with some sort of precision controlled thermal enclosure. Pressure > compensation is a good > >> idea on any of these parts (large or small). How much your particular > unit benefits is a > >> “that depends” sort of thing. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:24 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts < > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> List > >>> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get > 5065. > >>> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to > wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, > Peltier (sp) cooling modules? > >>> Regards, > >>> Perrier > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 21 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:10:12 +0000 > >> From: Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe@gmail.com> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor > >> Message-ID: > >> <CALg-KtMYS4eNfa0Zf_41M50zxi75+GLbD+SkZUbNBa9+ > 7jUDrQ@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> Thermometry based on Diode leakage current wouldn't be impossible I > >> suppose, you might loose some hair in the process. > >> > >> The signal levels on the opamp are goofed too. > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:19 AM Charles Steinmetz < > csteinmetz@yandex.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Tom wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" > >>> > >>> proportional to temperature. This could suggest that he means the > >>> > >>> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with > >>> > >>> absolute temperature). But that's not really an *error* -- just > sloppy. > >>> > >>> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear." An exponential > >>> > >>> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians > >>> > >>> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of > >>> > >>> reverse current). > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the > >>> > >>> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense > element. > >>> > >>> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. > >>> > >>> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the > >>> > >>> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his > >>> > >>> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Charles > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 22 > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:14:46 -0600 > >> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com> > >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > >> <time-nuts@febo.com> > >> Cc: time-nuts@febo.com > >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TICC update? > >> Message-ID: <1eb0a119-dc94-4117-8842-73fe1c166ce7@typeapp.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> ⁣Hi Scott -- > >> > >> We received the first-unit sample a couple of weeks ago and it > successfully passed all tests, so we gave the go-ahead to do the production > build. > >> > >> We've also sent the Contract Manufacturer the final software versions > to be loaded to the Arduino as well as a set of test oscillators for unit > testing. (The production code is in master at > https://github.com/TAPR/TICC) > >> > >> My project for this coming weekend is to get the user documentation > ready; it's also at GitHub. > >> > >> I don't know precisely where the CM is in the process right now, but > we're still looking for delivery to TAPR by early February. > >> > >> You can still order: http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html > >> > >> John > >> > >> ---- > >> > >> On Jan 16, 2017, 10:17 PM, at 10:17 PM, Scott Newell < > newell+timenuts@n5tnl.com> wrote: > >>> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the > >>> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and > >>> SMA adapters? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> newell N5TNL > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Subject: Digest Footer > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list > >> time-nuts@febo.com > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36 > >> ****************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >