A Wiha nutdriver set later and I'm in: https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA See the last two pictures. I will disassemble the board stack and work out some schematics next. Thanks everyone. -ch 73 de AI6KG On Nov 20, 2016 5:19 AM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@att.net> wrote: Christopher, Enjoyed the pictures. You might want to look at these items on theBay. 381408412092 311736541103 I've had the same issue and broke down and bought a set of these small nut drivers. Good luck. Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hoover Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:45 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100 tl;dr: I've made some progress and have the1200 oscillator core out of the dewar: https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA I got some 5 thou brass stock and worked it between the rubber sheet and the dewar. That seemed to help but it was insufficient free things up -- I busted off the unused solder lug trying to pull the core out with it. Having not a lot to lose, I took a chance that the screws going into the TO-23 went into threaded holes (rather than being clearance holes with nuts inside). This was indeed the case. With two 6-32 threaded rods into the TO-23 threaded holes and and an appropriately machined piece of mild steel bar stock suspended across the case <https://goo.gl/photos/1pfiN2GX3WxYCSbg8>, I was able to easily get the oscillator core out of the dewar by evenly tightening the the nuts on the bar. Really easily -- I might have been able to pull it out by just pulling on the bar stock. I don't know if the shim stock shenanigans were even needed. Despite running out the three sloted screws on the "top" around the circumference, I'm not into the inside yet. I don't have the right thin-walled socket to remove the nuts at the opposite end. I found an epoxy covered hole on the top. It is/was under the green blob midway between 1 and 2 o'clock in this picture here <https://goo.gl/photos/ iHbSbqwBiKD7NRfJ6>.. There was something blue and at this point crumbly underneath it. Not sure yet what, if anything, is beyond all of that. I'm hoping for a trimmer cap. :-) -- Christopher. 73 de AI6KG On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com> wrote: > Back when I was going to work on mine, I was thinking of prying the > rubber away from the aluminum oven with something like a feeler gauge, > but also using some naptha (lighter fluid) to help release any > adhesive... I didn't get around to doing it, but that was the way I > was going to progress. > > -Chuck Harris > > Ed Palmer wrote: > > > > > > On 2016-09-26 10:00 AM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >You might be able to slide something like a feeler guage down > >>> >between > the > >>> >oven and the rubber blanket to break the oscillator free. The > >>> >oven > on mine > >>> >is a plain metal cylinder. This way, the rubber sheet should > >>> >protect > the > >>> >Dewar from your feeler guage. On mine, the mounting bolts for > >>> >the > 2N3792 > >>> >transistor both have ground lugs. I think I see them on yours. > >>> >You > could > >>> >hook something through the ground lugs and use that to pull the > oscillator > >>> >out of the rubber sheet and then remove the sheet later. > >>> > > >> Thanks Ed, > >> > >> I think the rubber sheet on mine is against metal. I haven't yet > >> seen > the > >> glass dewar. > >> > >> The adhesion is huge. > >> > >> Do you know if the holes opposite the 2N3792 are threaded? If they > are, I > >> might try running the screws out and using those holes with longer > screws > >> as my pull points. I can't pull on the lugs hard enough -- I've > tried. > >> > >> -christopher. > >> 73 de AI6KG > > > > Yes, you have seen the Dewar. The silvery ring that's outside the > rubber is the top > > of the Dewar. What you have to do is unstick and unfold the rubber > starting from the > > open area in the center. Work your way outward. The rubber is only > > 2 > or 3 mm > > thick. Once you completely clear the rubber out of the way, you'll > > see > the edge of > > the oven. The TO-3 transistor is mounted on top of the oven assembly. > Once you can > > see the edge, you have to slide something like a long feeler gauge > > down > along the > > edge of the oven to break it free from the rubber. Work your way > > all > around the > > oven. It's about 85 mm long. It'll still be stuck on the bottom, > > but > you might be > > able to pull it free. > > > > When I took mine apart, I ended up tearing off all the rubber at the > > top > and then > > cutting out that ring of hard foam to get at the Dewar so I could > > smash > it more. I'm > > guessing you'd rather not do that! :) But sacrificing the rubber on > > the > top might be > > okay, if you have to. > > > > Sorry, but I don't know if the mounting holes for the transistor are > threaded or > > not. In any case, since the oven and Dewar are bonded to the > > rubber, > you're pulling > > on the Dewar when you pull on the oven. Not a good plan until you > > break > the oven > > free from the rubber. Those Dewars are built in a rather fragile > manner. Your > > typical home Thermos is much more robust. > > > > Ed > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow > the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of these oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 1:45 AM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> wrote: > A Wiha nutdriver set later and I'm in: > > https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA > > See the last two pictures. > > I will disassemble the board stack and work out some schematics next. > > Thanks everyone. > -ch > 73 de AI6KG > > On Nov 20, 2016 5:19 AM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@att.net> wrote: > > Christopher, > > Enjoyed the pictures. > > You might want to look at these items on theBay. > > 381408412092 > > 311736541103 > > I've had the same issue and broke down and bought a set of these small nut > drivers. > > Good luck. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Hoover > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:45 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100 > > tl;dr: I've made some progress and have the1200 oscillator core out of the > dewar: > > https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA > > > > I got some 5 thou brass stock and worked it between the rubber sheet and > the dewar. > > That seemed to help but it was insufficient free things up -- I busted off > the unused solder lug trying to pull the core out with it. > > Having not a lot to lose, I took a chance that the screws going into the > TO-23 went into threaded holes (rather than being clearance holes with nuts > inside). This was indeed the case. > > With two 6-32 threaded rods into the TO-23 threaded holes and and an > appropriately machined piece of mild steel bar stock suspended across the > case <https://goo.gl/photos/1pfiN2GX3WxYCSbg8>, I was able to easily get > the oscillator core out of the dewar by evenly tightening the the nuts on > the bar. Really easily -- I might have been able to pull it out by just > pulling on the bar stock. I don't know if the shim stock shenanigans were > even needed. > > Despite running out the three sloted screws on the "top" around the > circumference, I'm not into the inside yet. I don't have the right > thin-walled socket to remove the nuts at the opposite end. > > I found an epoxy covered hole on the top. It is/was under the green blob > midway between 1 and 2 o'clock in this picture here < > https://goo.gl/photos/ > iHbSbqwBiKD7NRfJ6>.. There was something blue and > at this point crumbly underneath it. Not sure yet what, if anything, is > beyond all of that. I'm hoping for a trimmer cap. :-) > > -- Christopher. > 73 de AI6KG > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com> wrote: > > > Back when I was going to work on mine, I was thinking of prying the > > rubber away from the aluminum oven with something like a feeler gauge, > > but also using some naptha (lighter fluid) to help release any > > adhesive... I didn't get around to doing it, but that was the way I > > was going to progress. > > > > -Chuck Harris > > > > Ed Palmer wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 2016-09-26 10:00 AM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> >You might be able to slide something like a feeler guage down > > >>> >between > > the > > >>> >oven and the rubber blanket to break the oscillator free. The > > >>> >oven > > on mine > > >>> >is a plain metal cylinder. This way, the rubber sheet should > > >>> >protect > > the > > >>> >Dewar from your feeler guage. On mine, the mounting bolts for > > >>> >the > > 2N3792 > > >>> >transistor both have ground lugs. I think I see them on yours. > > >>> >You > > could > > >>> >hook something through the ground lugs and use that to pull the > > oscillator > > >>> >out of the rubber sheet and then remove the sheet later. > > >>> > > > >> Thanks Ed, > > >> > > >> I think the rubber sheet on mine is against metal. I haven't yet > > >> seen > > the > > >> glass dewar. > > >> > > >> The adhesion is huge. > > >> > > >> Do you know if the holes opposite the 2N3792 are threaded? If they > > are, I > > >> might try running the screws out and using those holes with longer > > screws > > >> as my pull points. I can't pull on the lugs hard enough -- I've > > tried. > > >> > > >> -christopher. > > >> 73 de AI6KG > > > > > > Yes, you have seen the Dewar. The silvery ring that's outside the > > rubber is the top > > > of the Dewar. What you have to do is unstick and unfold the rubber > > starting from the > > > open area in the center. Work your way outward. The rubber is only > > > 2 > > or 3 mm > > > thick. Once you completely clear the rubber out of the way, you'll > > > see > > the edge of > > > the oven. The TO-3 transistor is mounted on top of the oven assembly. > > Once you can > > > see the edge, you have to slide something like a long feeler gauge > > > down > > along the > > > edge of the oven to break it free from the rubber. Work your way > > > all > > around the > > > oven. It's about 85 mm long. It'll still be stuck on the bottom, > > > but > > you might be > > > able to pull it free. > > > > > > When I took mine apart, I ended up tearing off all the rubber at the > > > top > > and then > > > cutting out that ring of hard foam to get at the Dewar so I could > > > smash > > it more. I'm > > > guessing you'd rather not do that! :) But sacrificing the rubber on > > > the > > top might be > > > okay, if you have to. > > > > > > Sorry, but I don't know if the mounting holes for the transistor are > > threaded or > > > not. In any case, since the oven and Dewar are bonded to the > > > rubber, > > you're pulling > > > on the Dewar when you pull on the oven. Not a good plan until you > > > break > > the oven > > > free from the rubber. Those Dewars are built in a rather fragile > > manner. Your > > > typical home Thermos is much more robust. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow > > the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi …. but … you might *build* one of those oscillators. The Dewar flask OCXO thing died out many decades ago. The main reason was size. A secondary reason was the fragile nature of a Dewar (they don’t take well to being dropped … I have empirical evidence). Neither one of these issues is particularly significant for a Time Nut basement project. Since they tend to be a bit on the big side, super dense PCB’s are not a major advantage building them. The same auction sites that will sell you questionable OCXO’s will sell you nice working Dewars as components for your build. Bob > On Nov 23, 2016, at 8:33 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of these > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 1:45 AM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> > wrote: > >> A Wiha nutdriver set later and I'm in: >> >> https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA >> >> See the last two pictures. >> >> I will disassemble the board stack and work out some schematics next. >> >> Thanks everyone. >> -ch >> 73 de AI6KG >> >> On Nov 20, 2016 5:19 AM, "J. L. Trantham" <jltran@att.net> wrote: >> >> Christopher, >> >> Enjoyed the pictures. >> >> You might want to look at these items on theBay. >> >> 381408412092 >> >> 311736541103 >> >> I've had the same issue and broke down and bought a set of these small nut >> drivers. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Hoover >> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:45 PM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Inside of FT1200-100 >> >> tl;dr: I've made some progress and have the1200 oscillator core out of the >> dewar: >> >> https://goo.gl/photos/SDHtvgFmftQq6vYJA >> >> >> >> I got some 5 thou brass stock and worked it between the rubber sheet and >> the dewar. >> >> That seemed to help but it was insufficient free things up -- I busted off >> the unused solder lug trying to pull the core out with it. >> >> Having not a lot to lose, I took a chance that the screws going into the >> TO-23 went into threaded holes (rather than being clearance holes with nuts >> inside). This was indeed the case. >> >> With two 6-32 threaded rods into the TO-23 threaded holes and and an >> appropriately machined piece of mild steel bar stock suspended across the >> case <https://goo.gl/photos/1pfiN2GX3WxYCSbg8>, I was able to easily get >> the oscillator core out of the dewar by evenly tightening the the nuts on >> the bar. Really easily -- I might have been able to pull it out by just >> pulling on the bar stock. I don't know if the shim stock shenanigans were >> even needed. >> >> Despite running out the three sloted screws on the "top" around the >> circumference, I'm not into the inside yet. I don't have the right >> thin-walled socket to remove the nuts at the opposite end. >> >> I found an epoxy covered hole on the top. It is/was under the green blob >> midway between 1 and 2 o'clock in this picture here < >> https://goo.gl/photos/ >> iHbSbqwBiKD7NRfJ6>.. There was something blue and >> at this point crumbly underneath it. Not sure yet what, if anything, is >> beyond all of that. I'm hoping for a trimmer cap. :-) >> >> -- Christopher. >> 73 de AI6KG >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com> wrote: >> >>> Back when I was going to work on mine, I was thinking of prying the >>> rubber away from the aluminum oven with something like a feeler gauge, >>> but also using some naptha (lighter fluid) to help release any >>> adhesive... I didn't get around to doing it, but that was the way I >>> was going to progress. >>> >>> -Chuck Harris >>> >>> Ed Palmer wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2016-09-26 10:00 AM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You might be able to slide something like a feeler guage down >>>>>>> between >>> the >>>>>>> oven and the rubber blanket to break the oscillator free. The >>>>>>> oven >>> on mine >>>>>>> is a plain metal cylinder. This way, the rubber sheet should >>>>>>> protect >>> the >>>>>>> Dewar from your feeler guage. On mine, the mounting bolts for >>>>>>> the >>> 2N3792 >>>>>>> transistor both have ground lugs. I think I see them on yours. >>>>>>> You >>> could >>>>>>> hook something through the ground lugs and use that to pull the >>> oscillator >>>>>>> out of the rubber sheet and then remove the sheet later. >>>>>>> >>>>> Thanks Ed, >>>>> >>>>> I think the rubber sheet on mine is against metal. I haven't yet >>>>> seen >>> the >>>>> glass dewar. >>>>> >>>>> The adhesion is huge. >>>>> >>>>> Do you know if the holes opposite the 2N3792 are threaded? If they >>> are, I >>>>> might try running the screws out and using those holes with longer >>> screws >>>>> as my pull points. I can't pull on the lugs hard enough -- I've >>> tried. >>>>> >>>>> -christopher. >>>>> 73 de AI6KG >>>> >>>> Yes, you have seen the Dewar. The silvery ring that's outside the >>> rubber is the top >>>> of the Dewar. What you have to do is unstick and unfold the rubber >>> starting from the >>>> open area in the center. Work your way outward. The rubber is only >>>> 2 >>> or 3 mm >>>> thick. Once you completely clear the rubber out of the way, you'll >>>> see >>> the edge of >>>> the oven. The TO-3 transistor is mounted on top of the oven assembly. >>> Once you can >>>> see the edge, you have to slide something like a long feeler gauge >>>> down >>> along the >>>> edge of the oven to break it free from the rubber. Work your way >>>> all >>> around the >>>> oven. It's about 85 mm long. It'll still be stuck on the bottom, >>>> but >>> you might be >>>> able to pull it free. >>>> >>>> When I took mine apart, I ended up tearing off all the rubber at the >>>> top >>> and then >>>> cutting out that ring of hard foam to get at the Dewar so I could >>>> smash >>> it more. I'm >>>> guessing you'd rather not do that! :) But sacrificing the rubber on >>>> the >>> top might be >>>> okay, if you have to. >>>> >>>> Sorry, but I don't know if the mounting holes for the transistor are >>> threaded or >>>> not. In any case, since the oven and Dewar are bonded to the >>>> rubber, >>> you're pulling >>>> on the Dewar when you pull on the oven. Not a good plan until you >>>> break >>> the oven >>>> free from the rubber. Those Dewars are built in a rather fragile >>> manner. Your >>>> typical home Thermos is much more robust. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow >>> the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

> Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of these > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL Paul, I have quite a few vintage FTS 1200's here and will be doing a grand comparison in a few months. They are known for extremely good ADEV, way down in the -13's. I'll put your name on one of them. /tvb

Thanks Tom. I always like to see the insides of things. You just never know when strange things show up in strange places like flea markets and they do. At least at MIT. It gives you a clue. Have a good thanks giving. Regards Paul On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@leapsecond.com> wrote: > > Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of > these > > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has > > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > Paul, > > I have quite a few vintage FTS 1200's here and will be doing a grand > comparison in a few months. They are known for extremely good ADEV, way > down in the -13's. I'll put your name on one of them. > > /tvb > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

OK, I think this folded-over cap sets the nominal XO frequency: (link in case it doesn't go through: https://goo.gl/photos/XHUCKTnC3NAB5rKD6 ) I read the p/n as CY06C240J. 24 pFs? CGW would seem to be Corning Glass Works. On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@leapsecond.com> wrote: > > Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of > these > > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man has > > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > Paul, > > I have quite a few vintage FTS 1200's here and will be doing a grand > comparison in a few months. They are known for extremely good ADEV, way > down in the -13's. I'll put your name on one of them. > > /tvb > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

yes 24 pf Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Christopher Hoover <ch@murgatroid.com> wrote: > OK, I think this folded-over cap sets the nominal XO frequency: > > (link in case it doesn't go through: https://goo.gl/photos/ > XHUCKTnC3NAB5rKD6 > ) > > I read the p/n as CY06C240J. 24 pFs? CGW would seem to be Corning Glass > Works. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Tom Van Baak <tvb@leapsecond.com> wrote: > > > > Chris enjoying the pictures. Most likely I will never run into one of > > these > > > oscillators. But it is nice to know that you have gone "where no man > has > > > gone before". Star Trek? Not sure. > > > Regards > > > Paul > > > WB8TSL > > > > Paul, > > > > I have quite a few vintage FTS 1200's here and will be doing a grand > > comparison in a few months. They are known for extremely good ADEV, way > > down in the -13's. I'll put your name on one of them. > > > > /tvb > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >