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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: [time-nuts] Spice simulation of PSRR and phase noise

E
EWKehren@aol.com
Sun, Oct 29, 2017 12:06 PM

Attila
Thank you for posting the link to Richard's excellent paper that does not
only apply to Cs. In my opinion it is a must read for any one serious in
doing  any work on time and frequency issues.
Bert Kehren

In a message dated 10/27/2017 3:14:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
attila@kinali.ch writes:

On Tue,  24 Oct 2017 12:12:24 -0700
"Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  richard@karlquist.com wrote:

This problem came up in the  design of the 5071A.
I elected to avoid narrowband filters by  using
some tricks described in my FCS paper of about
25 years  ago.  I didn't find it necessary to ovenize
the output  section.

For those looking for the  paper:
http://www.karlquist.com/FCS92.pdf

Attila Kinali

--
It is upon moral qualities  that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological  sophistication in the world is of no
use without that  foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil  Stephenson


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Attila Thank you for posting the link to Richard's excellent paper that does not only apply to Cs. In my opinion it is a must read for any one serious in doing any work on time and frequency issues. Bert Kehren In a message dated 10/27/2017 3:14:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, attila@kinali.ch writes: On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 12:12:24 -0700 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com> wrote: > This problem came up in the design of the 5071A. > I elected to avoid narrowband filters by using > some tricks described in my FCS paper of about > 25 years ago. I didn't find it necessary to ovenize > the output section. For those looking for the paper: http://www.karlquist.com/FCS92.pdf Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
AK
Attila Kinali
Tue, Oct 31, 2017 8:26 PM

Hoi Bert,

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 08:06:37 -0400
Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:

Thank you for posting the link to Richard's excellent paper that does not
only apply to Cs. In my opinion it is a must read for any one serious in
doing  any work on time and frequency issues.

Well, the way how the HP 5071 synthesis chain is designed is the way
one would do it today. Using SRDs went pretty much out of fashion,
and not only because they are hard to buy these days. Today we have
monolithic VCOs that give 9GHz in a tiny packages with good
phase noise performance. We have PLLs with integrated dividers that
can handle 10GHz inputs with 10MHz references directly. Ie you could
simplify the synthesis chain even further.  You could build the complete
synthesis chain for the 5071 on a PCB of 5x5cm and still have space to spare.
Even using a DRO (for lower phase noise) would not make the circuit much bigger.

We kind of live in the golden age of electronics design, even if the constant
shrinking of parts makes them harder to handle for hobbyists.

		Attila Kinali

--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson

Hoi Bert, On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 08:06:37 -0400 Bert Kehren via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > Thank you for posting the link to Richard's excellent paper that does not > only apply to Cs. In my opinion it is a must read for any one serious in > doing any work on time and frequency issues. Well, the way how the HP 5071 synthesis chain is designed is the way one would do it today. Using SRDs went pretty much out of fashion, and not only because they are hard to buy these days. Today we have monolithic VCOs that give 9GHz in a tiny packages with good phase noise performance. We have PLLs with integrated dividers that can handle 10GHz inputs with 10MHz references directly. Ie you could simplify the synthesis chain even further. You could build the complete synthesis chain for the 5071 on a PCB of 5x5cm and still have space to spare. Even using a DRO (for lower phase noise) would not make the circuit much bigger. We kind of live in the golden age of electronics design, even if the constant shrinking of parts makes them harder to handle for hobbyists. Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson