Randy wrote: > KiCad looks very good and I downloaded it to try it out. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Sprint-Layout from Abacom: <http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/sprint-layout.html> Back in January 2015, Sam Reaves posted a nice writeup of this package. Based on his post, I tried it, loved it, and bought it (it's very reasonable). I also have KiCAD, the free version of Eagle, and the DipTrace demo version. I've gotten to where I can use all of them, but when it comes time to do a board, I almost always go straight to Sprint-Layout. Certainly, anyone who balks at the steep learning curves of KiCAD, Eagle, and DipTrace will just love the intuitive operation of Sprint-Layout. I've pasted part of Sam's original message below. Best regards, Charles > The excellent, not free but very inexpensive (49 Euros) PCB package from > Abacom called SprintLayout6.0 (link below). If you are outside of the EU > the cost is 19% less (minus their VAT). > > You can download a demo that does everything but save your work for free. > And they take PayPal. There is also a free viewer that can view the native > files. Although you may never need it they have excellent support. Bugs > have been minimal and the product has been very stable for me. I have run > it on XP and Win7 32/64 with no issues. Licensing is simple and you can > install on more than one PC as long as you use it only on one PC at a time. > > Here is a short list of exceptional features that this program has that is > (for me) a good bang for the buck (or euro!) > > 1. Ability to import 274X Gerber files to allow you to easily turn them > into an editable PCB file (I found this really handy to create PCB's from > Eagle and other PCB CAD package files. > > 2. Ability to import a BMP file from a scanned image and scale and float it > in the background so that you can trace over it to create editable artwork. > Really handy for those old designs or for working from artwork from > magazines or the back of the ARRL handbook. > > 3. Easy Ground plane/Power plane pour. Pads can be set as thermals to > connect to the plane with independent connection to either plane. Zone > pours and cutouts can also be done. > > 4. Support for four layer boards. > > 5. Easy to use footprint creation tool for SMT/Thoughhole parts > > 6. Easy to use part library generation. Many parts available. > > 7. The ability to rotate parts in very fine increments. > > 8. Photo view mode that shows you exactly how the finished PCB will look. > > 9. Isolation generator for creating milling plots for making PCB's on a CNC > mill. Worth the price for this feature alone. When used with Bernhard > Pahl's SL2M3 program which converts the HPGL milling plot files and the > drill/mill data to G-Code for running CNC programs like Mach-3. With some > manual editing of the G-Code text one can use the program with LinuxCNC. > > 10. Simple point to point semi-automatic router that works with manually > placed connections. > > 11. Moving the reference datum (X0 , Y0) point for all layers is really > easy and I have not found any other program that does this as easily. > > 12. Perhaps most important: The program is very easy to use and learn and I > have made dozens of boards using it in all of the modes. >

			Attila Kinali

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:17:17 -0500 NeonJohn <jgd@neon-john.com> wrote: > > If you don't have any personal preference, then > > KiCad is definitely the way to go. It has improved > > dramatically since it got the CERN treatment and > > doesn't cost a cent regardless of size and layers. > > Indeed. I am just about to pull the trigger on KiCAD company-wide. I > think it is ready for the kind of work we do (4 layer boards, some with > high current/voltage traces). The only thing holding me back IS our > investment in IP. Maybe with Eagle 7 using XML for data storage, > someone will write an Eagle to KiCAD converter. What you have in schematics and layout does not matter that much, if you have the money to keep an Eagle license around. In my experience the only IP that matters are reviewed and known good schematic symbol and footprint libraries. Schematics and layouts of circuits that are more than a couple of years old are only worth as a reference for the new design. New devices come so quickly that a design done 5 years ago would look very different if done today. And often with better performance and cheaper too. Attila Kinali -- It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no use without that foundation. -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson

On 12/19/2016 08:49 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: > What you have in schematics and layout does not matter that much, > if you have the money to keep an Eagle license around. In my experience > the only IP that matters are reviewed and known good schematic symbol > and footprint libraries. Schematics and layouts of circuits that are > more than a couple of years old are only worth as a reference for the > new design. New devices come so quickly that a design done 5 years ago > would look very different if done today. And often with better performance > and cheaper too. Depends entirely on the industry. Consumer electronics, I agree fully. Industrial and commercial products, not so much. Our main product, the Roy induction heater is a perfect example of the latter. It uses a fairly large board with mixed logic and power sections. Over 400 components. I haven't made a meaningful design change in about 4 years. Every 6 months we consider suggestions made by customers and employees. So far very few got through the review process. I'm now doing the board over from scratch but only because my hand was forced by Atmel EOLing my microprocessor. It really p*sses me that they EOL'd the part with no advance warning. There is tremendous IP value in that board and the custom component library. Yes, the new board will have more functionality, will protect the power semis better and will move much of the low level hardware into software but none of that was worth the effort it's going to take to port the firmware functionality over to the new processor until I was forced to do so. Eagle's new AutoDesk-style of licensing forced the issue to KiCAD for me. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.tnduction.com <-- THE source for induction heaters http://www.neon-john.com <-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com <-- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77