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Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO - probably a stupid question.

K
KA2WEU@aol.com
Wed, Aug 17, 2016 9:04 PM

There are no (rarely maybe ) stupid questions, mostly silly answers

In a message dated 8/17/2016 5:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
elfchief-timenuts@lupine.org writes:

Wouldn't  you also not be able to actually sync to the individual chips,
since you  can't really see the start of any given chip so much as you
just see the  correlation over larger sections of the stream? Plus you'd
have to track  only one SV at a time (right? Since I doubt the edges of
every chip are  perfectly aligned across all SVs even under the best
conditions), so  things like brief multipath excursions or even
atmospheric/ionospheric  fluctuations would push you off by a bit as well...

(which is why, of  course, you have the long control loop that GPSDOs  use)

-j

On 2016-08-17 11:41 , Didier Juges wrote:

In  fact, you do not want to "update the crystal one million

times/second".

The whole point of a GPSDO is to combine the excellent  short term

stability

of the crystal with the excellent long term  stability of the GPS signal.

If

you update the crystal in real time  from the GPS data, you do not need

the

crystal...
The control  loop of GPSDOs usually have an effective bandwidth measured

in

minutes  or even hours in the case of rubidium oscillators.

On  Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Peter Reilley

wrote:

You can  get crystal oscillators that have a frequency control signal and
are more
stable than the run of the mill oscillators.    Changing the GPS

oscillator

would
require modifying a  very tightly populated circuit board.  Perhaps not
possible.

What about some of the SDR (software defined  radio) projects that aim to
implement GPS  functionality?  If you used the GPS chipping rate  (1.023
MHz)
to dicipline the 10 MHz oscillator then  you are less sensitive to

crystal

instabilities.
You  are updating the crystal one million times a second rather than

once

per second.
This is assuming that the chipping  rate of the transmitter is just as

good

as the
1 PPS  signal.  This info from here;
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog862/node/1753
and  here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals

Even using  the 50 bits/sec data rate of the GPS signal would allow
updating  the
GPSDO faster than the 1 PPS signal.

Pete.


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There are no (rarely maybe ) stupid questions, mostly silly answers In a message dated 8/17/2016 5:03:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, elfchief-timenuts@lupine.org writes: Wouldn't you also not be able to actually sync to the individual chips, since you can't really see the start of any given chip so much as you just see the correlation over larger sections of the stream? Plus you'd have to track only one SV at a time (right? Since I doubt the edges of every chip are perfectly aligned across all SVs even under the best conditions), so things like brief multipath excursions or even atmospheric/ionospheric fluctuations would push you off by a bit as well... (which is why, of course, you have the long control loop that GPSDOs use) -j On 2016-08-17 11:41 , Didier Juges wrote: > In fact, you do not want to "update the crystal one million times/second". > The whole point of a GPSDO is to combine the excellent short term stability > of the crystal with the excellent long term stability of the GPS signal. If > you update the crystal in real time from the GPS data, you do not need the > crystal... > The control loop of GPSDOs usually have an effective bandwidth measured in > minutes or even hours in the case of rubidium oscillators. > > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Peter Reilley <preilley_454@comcast.net> > wrote: > >> You can get crystal oscillators that have a frequency control signal and >> are more >> stable than the run of the mill oscillators. Changing the GPS oscillator >> would >> require modifying a very tightly populated circuit board. Perhaps not >> possible. >> >> What about some of the SDR (software defined radio) projects that aim to >> implement GPS functionality? If you used the GPS chipping rate (1.023 >> MHz) >> to dicipline the 10 MHz oscillator then you are less sensitive to crystal >> instabilities. >> You are updating the crystal one million times a second rather than once >> per second. >> This is assuming that the chipping rate of the transmitter is just as good >> as the >> 1 PPS signal. This info from here; >> https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog862/node/1753 >> and here; >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals >> >> Even using the 50 bits/sec data rate of the GPS signal would allow >> updating the >> GPSDO faster than the 1 PPS signal. >> >> Pete. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.