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GPS week rollover

C
cdelect@juno.com
Thu, Mar 28, 2019 6:30 PM

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time
nuts like to play with???

Cheers,

Corby

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time nuts like to play with??? Cheers, Corby
S-
Steve - Home
Thu, Mar 28, 2019 7:21 PM

I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff.

Steve

On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, cdelect@juno.com cdelect@juno.com wrote:

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time
nuts like to play with???

Cheers,

Corby


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff. Steve > On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: > > Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time > nuts like to play with??? > > Cheers, > > Corby > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
MC
Mike Cook
Thu, Apr 4, 2019 10:29 AM

Hi,
I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week.
Mike

Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home steve-krull@cox.net a écrit :

I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff.

Steve

On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, cdelect@juno.com cdelect@juno.com wrote:

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time
nuts like to play with???

Cheers,

Corby


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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"Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité."
Benjimin Franklin

Hi, I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week. Mike > Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home <steve-krull@cox.net> a écrit : > > I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff. > > Steve > > > > >> On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: >> >> Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time >> nuts like to play with??? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Corby >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. "Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité." Benjimin Franklin
DG
Dr Geophysics
Thu, Apr 4, 2019 12:46 PM

Potentially everything using the week 10 bits.  Check your manufacturer.  Trimble is all over this.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2019, at 06:29, Mike Cook michael.cook@sfr.fr wrote:

Hi,
I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week.
Mike

Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home steve-krull@cox.net a écrit :

I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff.

Steve

On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, cdelect@juno.com cdelect@juno.com wrote:

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time
nuts like to play with???

Cheers,

Corby


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.

"Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité."
Benjimin Franklin


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Potentially everything using the week 10 bits. Check your manufacturer. Trimble is all over this. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 4, 2019, at 06:29, Mike Cook <michael.cook@sfr.fr> wrote: > > Hi, > I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week. > Mike > >> Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home <steve-krull@cox.net> a écrit : >> >> I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: >>> >>> Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time >>> nuts like to play with??? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Corby >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > "Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité." > Benjimin Franklin > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
E
EB4APL
Fri, Apr 5, 2019 12:37 AM

I received the same invitation. And they states that the WNRO problem is
an "external" problem.  I did it and now all the maps are signaled as
invalid!

Fortunately I was able to copy my  main map from a backup copy.

Regards,

Ignacio EB4APL

El 04/04/2019 a las 12:29, Mike Cook escribió:

Hi,
I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week.
Mike


El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I received the same invitation. And they states that the WNRO problem is an "external" problem.  I did it and now all the maps are signaled as invalid! Fortunately I was able to copy my  main map from a backup copy. Regards, Ignacio EB4APL El 04/04/2019 a las 12:29, Mike Cook escribió: > Hi, > I just got a heads up fro TomTom, saying my Go Live 825 bought 2012 « may » have WNRO problems after the April 6 rollover and invited me to update the firmware. I wouldn’t think it would affect the navigation, but it might brick the device. Unfortunately I can’t test it as it went to recycle 3 month ago . This could be an interesting week. > Mike > --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
SO
Steve Olney
Fri, Apr 5, 2019 10:40 PM

Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are
affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as
23:59:59 UTC 6th April.

Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 -
due to leap seconds ?

BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to
the above).  Any pointers to a clear explanation ?

Cheers

Steve

Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as 23:59:59 UTC 6th April. Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - due to leap seconds ? BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to the above).  Any pointers to a clear explanation ? Cheers Steve
JZ
Jeff Zambory
Sat, Apr 6, 2019 4:30 AM

Yes Steve, you are correct.

https://www.gps.gov/

Scroll down a bit and you can find a count down to the roll over. And it states the time when it will roll over. Just what you have said.

Jeff Z.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2019, at 4:40 PM, Steve Olney t0502@internode.on.net wrote:

Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as 23:59:59 UTC 6th April.

Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - due to leap seconds ?

BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to the above).  Any pointers to a clear explanation ?

Cheers

Steve


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.

Yes Steve, you are correct. https://www.gps.gov/ Scroll down a bit and you can find a count down to the roll over. And it states the time when it will roll over. Just what you have said. Jeff Z. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 5, 2019, at 4:40 PM, Steve Olney <t0502@internode.on.net> wrote: > > Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as 23:59:59 UTC 6th April. > > Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - due to leap seconds ? > > BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to the above). Any pointers to a clear explanation ? > > Cheers > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there.
MC
Mike Cook
Sat, Apr 6, 2019 5:42 AM

I checked my Garmin Emap, 1999 vintage IIRC. That is telling me that it is 20/05/2014.

I found this for Trimble which shows a number of devices affected by this which are commonly used bt timenuts.

https://novotech.com/support/eol-notices/trimble-gps-wnro-april-6-2019-event

Have a nice day

Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home steve-krull@cox.net a écrit :

I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff.

Steve

On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, cdelect@juno.com cdelect@juno.com wrote:

Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time
nuts like to play with???

Cheers,

Corby


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

"Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité."
Benjimin Franklin

I checked my Garmin Emap, 1999 vintage IIRC. That is telling me that it is 20/05/2014. I found this for Trimble which shows a number of devices affected by this which are commonly used bt timenuts. <https://novotech.com/support/eol-notices/trimble-gps-wnro-april-6-2019-event> Have a nice day > Le 28 mars 2019 à 20:21, Steve - Home <steve-krull@cox.net> a écrit : > > I have a Z3816A that’s showing a yellow “ro” next to the date in LH and is 18 seconds ahead of a Motorola 12 channel (and my iPhone). I haven’t had time to look into it as I’m adjusting to “voluntary” retirement and trying to clear out some excess stuff. > > Steve > > > > >> On Mar 28, 2019, at 1:30 PM, <cdelect@juno.com> <cdelect@juno.com> wrote: >> >> Are we expecting any week rollover problems with the receivers we time >> nuts like to play with??? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Corby >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com >> and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. "Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité." Benjimin Franklin
MB
Martin Burnicki
Sat, Apr 6, 2019 7:44 AM

Steve Olney wrote:

Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are
affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as
23:59:59 UTC 6th April.

Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 -
due to leap seconds ?

BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to
the above).  Any pointers to a clear explanation ?

The explanation is simple, IMO.

When the GPS system was put into operation in 1980 then the GPS time
matched UTC.

However, a number of leap seconds have been inserted into the UTC time
scale since, and each leap second delayed UTC by 1 s.

Yet 18 leap seconds have been inserted, so UTC is 18 s behind GPS time,
or the other way round, GPS time is 18 s ahead of UTC, so the WNRO
occurs 18 s before UTC midnight.

BTW, the effects of the rollover have already begun. For example, the
reference times of the almanac and clock correction parameters in the
the navigation messages received from the satellites refer to a time a
in the near future, so the week number of those time stamps has already
rolled over.

Martin

Steve Olney wrote: > Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are > affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as > 23:59:59 UTC 6th April. > > Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - > due to leap seconds ? > > BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to > the above). Any pointers to a clear explanation ? The explanation is simple, IMO. When the GPS system was put into operation in 1980 then the GPS time matched UTC. However, a number of leap seconds have been inserted into the UTC time scale since, and each leap second delayed UTC by 1 s. Yet 18 leap seconds have been inserted, so UTC is 18 s behind GPS time, or the other way round, GPS time is 18 s ahead of UTC, so the WNRO occurs 18 s before UTC midnight. BTW, the effects of the rollover have already begun. For example, the reference times of the almanac and clock correction parameters in the the navigation messages received from the satellites refer to a time a in the near future, so the week number of those time stamps has already rolled over. Martin
MC
Mike Cook
Sat, Apr 6, 2019 7:53 AM

The OP doesn’t state where he got the  « quote » from, but IMHO it is wrong. As I understand it.
The GPS epoch started at 0h 1st June 1980 and the week number roles at 1024 week intervals at 0h GPS time. When a leap second is added its as if the clock stops for a second so GPS time will be in advance of UTC buy the number of leap seconds added.  18 leap seconds have been added to date, so 0h GPS 07 april 2019 will be crossed at 23:59:42 UTC on April 6 as you indicated.

Le 6 avr. 2019 à 00:40, Steve Olney t0502@internode.on.net a écrit :

Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as 23:59:59 UTC 6th April.

Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - due to leap seconds ?

BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to the above).  Any pointers to a clear explanation ?

Cheers

Steve


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

"Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité."
Benjimin Franklin

The OP doesn’t state where he got the « quote » from, but IMHO it is wrong. As I understand it. The GPS epoch started at 0h 1st June 1980 and the week number roles at 1024 week intervals at 0h GPS time. When a leap second is added its as if the clock stops for a second so GPS time will be in advance of UTC buy the number of leap seconds added. 18 leap seconds have been added to date, so 0h GPS 07 april 2019 will be crossed at 23:59:42 UTC on April 6 as you indicated. > Le 6 avr. 2019 à 00:40, Steve Olney <t0502@internode.on.net> a écrit : > > Just curious - WNRO is not an issue for me even if my GPS receivers are affected - but I note that the time of rollover is being quoted as 23:59:59 UTC 6th April. > > Wouldn't the time actually be 18 seconds earlier ? - i.e., 23:59:42 - due to leap seconds ? > > BTW - I'm not clear about GPS time vs UTC (which is probably relevant to the above). Any pointers to a clear explanation ? > > Cheers > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. "Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité." Benjimin Franklin