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Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

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Re: Is there a term for the reverse/inverse of harmonic?

HM
Hal Murray
Mon, Apr 28, 2025 10:36 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great
through but don't flood our mailboxes.

I just dropped a dozen or so.  (and fatfingered one that went through,
apologies)

Here is a summary of the ones I dropped
There were 10 mentions of subharmonic.
There were 3 mentions of fundamental
There was one suggestion of undertone
and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency

On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In
music...".

Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic.
: a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral
submultiple of the fundamental frequency

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

Thanks for all the replies. Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great through but don't flood our mailboxes. I just dropped a dozen or so. (and fatfingered one that went through, apologies) Here is a summary of the ones I dropped There were 10 mentions of subharmonic. There were 3 mentions of fundamental There was one suggestion of undertone and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In music...". Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic. : a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral submultiple of the fundamental frequency -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
MD
Magnus Danielson
Mon, Apr 28, 2025 11:21 AM

Hi,

A reflection. You might not have the fundamental accessable, but it may
be relevant indirectly. Two frequencies may be say 2/5 or 3/5 of some
other frequency, thus you do 2 or 3 cycles while the higher does 5
cycles. Thus they can be locked and have a fixed relationship and that's
where fractional frequency becomes relevant without having a fundamental
or subtone.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2025-04-28 12:36, Hal Murray via time-nuts wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great
through but don't flood our mailboxes.

I just dropped a dozen or so.  (and fatfingered one that went through,
apologies)

Here is a summary of the ones I dropped
There were 10 mentions of subharmonic.
There were 3 mentions of fundamental
There was one suggestion of undertone
and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency

On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In
music...".

Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic.
: a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral
submultiple of the fundamental frequency

Hi, A reflection. You might not have the fundamental accessable, but it may be relevant indirectly. Two frequencies may be say 2/5 or 3/5 of some other frequency, thus you do 2 or 3 cycles while the higher does 5 cycles. Thus they can be locked and have a fixed relationship and that's where fractional frequency becomes relevant without having a fundamental or subtone. Cheers, Magnus On 2025-04-28 12:36, Hal Murray via time-nuts wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. > > > Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great > through but don't flood our mailboxes. > > I just dropped a dozen or so. (and fatfingered one that went through, > apologies) > > Here is a summary of the ones I dropped > There were 10 mentions of subharmonic. > There were 3 mentions of fundamental > There was one suggestion of undertone > and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency > > > On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In > music...". > > Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic. > : a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral > submultiple of the fundamental frequency > >
JL
Jim Lux
Mon, Apr 28, 2025 6:45 PM

 
An example of this is deep space transponders for ranging.

The transmitted frequency is some ratio of integers of the received frequency (880/749 for X-band) - But there may not be anything in the device at the common value (called f0 in most of the papers talking about this) - For example, a lot of transponders generate the output signal as 220 * refosc and the LO for the receiver as 187*refosc (where refosc is something around 40 MHz).

On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 13:21:26 +0200, Magnus Danielson via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Hi,

A reflection. You might not have the fundamental accessable, but it may
be relevant indirectly. Two frequencies may be say 2/5 or 3/5 of some
other frequency, thus you do 2 or 3 cycles while the higher does 5
cycles. Thus they can be locked and have a fixed relationship and that's
where fractional frequency becomes relevant without having a fundamental
or subtone.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2025-04-28 12:36, Hal Murray via time-nuts wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great
through but don't flood our mailboxes.

I just dropped a dozen or so. (and fatfingered one that went through,
apologies)

Here is a summary of the ones I dropped
There were 10 mentions of subharmonic.
There were 3 mentions of fundamental
There was one suggestion of undertone
and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency

On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In
music...".

Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic.
: a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral
submultiple of the fundamental frequency


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  An example of this is deep space transponders for ranging. The transmitted frequency is some ratio of integers of the received frequency (880/749 for X-band) - But there may not be anything in the device at the common value (called f0 in most of the papers talking about this) - For example, a lot of transponders generate the output signal as 220 * refosc and the LO for the receiver as 187*refosc (where refosc is something around 40 MHz). On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 13:21:26 +0200, Magnus Danielson via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: Hi, A reflection. You might not have the fundamental accessable, but it may be relevant indirectly. Two frequencies may be say 2/5 or 3/5 of some other frequency, thus you do 2 or 3 cycles while the higher does 5 cycles. Thus they can be locked and have a fixed relationship and that's where fractional frequency becomes relevant without having a fundamental or subtone. Cheers, Magnus On 2025-04-28 12:36, Hal Murray via time-nuts wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. > > > Tom asked me to take care of the backlog -- that is let anything great > through but don't flood our mailboxes. > > I just dropped a dozen or so. (and fatfingered one that went through, > apologies) > > Here is a summary of the ones I dropped > There were 10 mentions of subharmonic. > There were 3 mentions of fundamental > There was one suggestion of undertone > and another of fractional harmonic or fractional frequency > > > On Wikipedia, subharmonic redirects to "Undertone series" which begins "In > music...". > > Meriam-Webster has an entry for subharmonic. > : a component of a periodic wave having a frequency that is an integral > submultiple of the fundamental frequency > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com