Bye-Bye Crystals
Hi
On Mar 13, 2017, at 7:12 PM, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 3/13/17 3:19 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
…. ummm …. errr … Add to that:
X-ray gear to work out the orientation of the (possibly natural) bar you are sawing
Lapping gear to get the blanks flat (as optically flat)
Automated / sorting X-ray gear to figure out what’s what after they are lapped
Rounding equipment to turn the square ones into round ones without damaging them
Contouring gear to put the proper shape on one or both sides (or pipes)
Polishing gear to finish the shaping process
Etching baths to get the surface to it’s final condition
High vacuum cleaning to get all the crud off of all the parts before you do much of anything with themA base plater to put on the initial electrodes
Mounting fixtures to get the crystal into the holder
Cement curing (generally vacuum based) gear
Plate to frequency gear
That’s a short list, there actually is a bit more on a full list. The cleaning gear can get pretty extensive depending on the end application.
Just get the Kurt J. Lesker catalog out and start ordering<grin>
… since a lot of it goes into a single “never break vacuum” enclosure, it gets complicated fast. Toss in the
fact that you want a good vacuum and there’s a lot of stainless steel all over the place.
Bob
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 15:01:39 +0000, you wrote:
What minimal equipment would you need to make your own crystals ?
There was a WWII era "how they spend your war bonds" film that showed the
process pretty well. Diamond saws to cut the raw quartz, X-ray diffraction
to find the proper axes prior to cutting out blanks, assorted
polishing/lapping stuff, etching with truly nasty stuff. ISTR that if you
put a piece of foil under the plate glass you're grinding on, you can hear
a noise peak on a receiver at the approximate frequency.
I once raised a cheapo surplus crystal 60Kc plus to put it into the
40-meter CW band; worked fine!
IOW, not a trivial thing.
--
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Hi
…. ummm …… errr ….. 10 MHz sweet spot is a fiction.
Roughly speaking the Q of a crystal is inversely proportional to the frequency. Drop the frequency 2:1 and the Q doubles. That
assumes you don’t run into size constraints. If your package is a bit larger, the sweet spot is 2.5 MHz. If it’s a bit smaller the sweet
spot is 30 MHz. As package size has gotten smaller and smaller over the last 70 years, the idea of the “ideal frequency” has gone
up. This of course leads to the interesting question of reversing package size history …. If anybody has a few million dollars to toss
around, it’s an interesting thing to dig into.
Bob
On Mar 13, 2017, at 8:03 PM, Jeff AC0C keepwalking188@ac0c.com wrote:
Making a finished crystal, especially a high-Q one of a target frequency far removed from the 8-10 Mhz sweet spot, is definitely one of those projects that is a lot harder than you would think it is. I was down at ICM a few years back when we were building some high-Q 70 Mhz VHF crystals for a filter project and it was amazing the amount of stuff they had there.
73/jeff/ac0c
www.ac0c.com
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
-----Original Message----- From: Bob Camp
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 5:19 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals
Hi
…. ummm …. errr … Add to that:
X-ray gear to work out the orientation of the (possibly natural) bar you are sawing
Lapping gear to get the blanks flat (as optically flat)
Automated / sorting X-ray gear to figure out what’s what after they are lapped
Rounding equipment to turn the square ones into round ones without damaging them
Contouring gear to put the proper shape on one or both sides (or pipes)
Polishing gear to finish the shaping process
Etching baths to get the surface to it’s final condition
High vacuum cleaning to get all the crud off of all the parts before you do much of anything with themA base plater to put on the initial electrodes
Mounting fixtures to get the crystal into the holder
Cement curing (generally vacuum based) gear
Plate to frequency gear
That’s a short list, there actually is a bit more on a full list. The cleaning gear can get pretty extensive depending on the end application.
Bob
On Mar 13, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 15:01:39 +0000
Adrian Godwin artgodwin@gmail.com wrote:
What minimal equipment would you need to make your own crystals ?
The equipment is quite minimal:
- A diamond precision saw to cut the crystals
- Some tool to check the accuracy of the cut (orientation and thicknes)
- a lapping/grinding machine
- an electroplating machine (usually sputtering) for the electrodes.
- either some machine to produce the crystal holder yourself or buy them
- vacuum system to evacuate the crystal holder and to bake everything
- something to (cold) weld the case close
All of this can be put in a (relatively) small workshop.
The difficulty is also not producing quartz crystals
in holders. The difficulty controlling the whole process
to such an degree that you get high quality crystals
at the frequency you want.
If you managed to do that, you can further improve
your system by using a BVA[1,2] like geometry, where
the electrodes are not on the resonator itself but
on the surrounding crystal, which acts at the same
time as holder.
But be warned, many attempted to re-create the BVAs
but few succeeded... and none but Oscilloquartz ever
managed to produce a economically viable product.
Attila Kinali
[1] http://www.nature.com/articles/srep02132/figures/1
[2] http://www.nature.com/articles/srep02132/figures/2
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four
terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a
little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output"
and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X".
But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So
they still make crystals, just you don't see them
On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals?
-=Bryan=-
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com
Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals
I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which
was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years
ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or
so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose
crystals.
Rick N6RK
On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing
broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a lot of years since the last of the
non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily
for many years …
Bob
On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit,
Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later.
Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending
Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around.
There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away.
On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic.
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystalshttp://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
hackaday.com
There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- had a collection of ...
-=Bryan=-
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
Hi
On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com wrote:
I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four
terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a
little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output"
and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X".
But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So
they still make crystals, just you don't see them
These days, they may well have a MEMS resonator in them. No quartz and
no crystal. Good luck on the close in noise if that’s what they are doing ….
Bob
On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals?
-=Bryan=-
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com
Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals
I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which
was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years
ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or
so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose
crystals.
Rick N6RK
On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing
broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a lot of years since the last of the
non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily
for many years …
Bob
On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit,
Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later.
Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending
Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around.
There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away.
On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic.
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystalshttp://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
hackaday.com
There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- had a collection of ...
-=Bryan=-
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--
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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On 3/14/17 12:19 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four
terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a
little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output"
and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X".
But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So
they still make crystals, just you don't see them
A lot of those have micromachined silicon as the resonator, though
http://www.silabs.com/products/timing/oscillators/xo-silicon
Hi,
Some claims that MEMS will kill crystals. It will surely eat a good
market share, but I think there is applications where MEMS is not mature
enough compared to crystals.
Another aspect is that various forms of synthesis technologies now
exists, so that a high frequency CMOS oscillator is locked and divided
down. Works sufficiently well for a whole bunch of applications.
Again, your milage may vary and there is applications where you need the
real deal or the right stuff.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 03/14/2017 01:06 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com wrote:
I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four
terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a
little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output"
and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X".
But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So
they still make crystals, just you don't see them
These days, they may well have a MEMS resonator in them. No quartz and
no crystal. Good luck on the close in noise if that’s what they are doing ….
Bob
On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals?
-=Bryan=-
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com
Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals
I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which
was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years
ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or
so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose
crystals.
Rick N6RK
On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing
broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a lot of years since the last of the
non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily
for many years …
Bob
On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit,
Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later.
Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending
Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around.
There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away.
On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic.
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystalshttp://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
hackaday.com
There was a time when anyone involved with radio transmitting -- ham operators, CB'ers, scanner enthusiasts, or remote control model fans -- had a collection of ...
-=Bryan=-
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Hi
Some (but not all) of the resonant structures in the MEMS parts are effectively multi
resonator / multi peak structures. Because of this the phase noise has multiple major
bumps in it as you get into the region of all the peaks. Thats not going to give you
great close in phase noise or ADEV. Since the manufacturers are often a bit unclear
on “what’s inside” you need be a bit careful as you sort through the different parts out
there. Even after sorting, you still run the risk of an “improved” design suddenly
replacing the one you decided on.
So much fun !!!
Bob
On Mar 14, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Hi,
Some claims that MEMS will kill crystals. It will surely eat a good market share, but I think there is applications where MEMS is not mature enough compared to crystals.
Another aspect is that various forms of synthesis technologies now exists, so that a high frequency CMOS oscillator is locked and divided down. Works sufficiently well for a whole bunch of applications.
Again, your milage may vary and there is applications where you need the real deal or the right stuff.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 03/14/2017 01:06 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com wrote:
I think what he means is that the typical device sold today has four
terminals not two. It looks like a crystal because it is inside a
little silver can but has four lead wires Power, ground and "output"
and the fourth lead might not be used. It is an "XO" not an "X".
But I argue that every one of these device has a crystal inside. So
they still make crystals, just you don't see them
These days, they may well have a MEMS resonator in them. No quartz and
no crystal. Good luck on the close in noise if that’s what they are doing ….
Bob
On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
sorry, what do you mean by "complete oscillator" have outnumbered loose crystals?
-=Bryan=-
From: time-nuts time-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Richard (Rick) Karlquist richard@karlquist.com
Sent: March 12, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bye-Bye Crystals
I got a job in 1975 to design Konel's first synthesized radio, which
was to obsolete their crystal controlled radios. That's over 40 years
ago. The other trend (not mentioned) is that since 20 years ago or
so, complete oscillator sales have vastly outnumbered sales of loose
crystals.
Rick N6RK
On 3/11/2017 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
International’s main business was re-channeling non-synthesized radios and replacing
broken crystals in various pieces of com gear. It’s been a lot of years since the last of the
non-synthesized radios came out. The business probably has been dropping off pretty steadily
for many years …
Bob
On Mar 11, 2017, at 10:39 PM, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote:
On 3/11/17 4:30 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
From the tone of the letter it sounds like the bank cancelled line of credit,
Or, he wants to retire and nobody wants to carry it on. His dad started it in 1950, the son picked it up in 1970. It's 47 years later.
Which is stupid given that much of their line is military which is getting a huge boost in spending
Plenty of other crystal and oscillator manufacturers around.
There's also a change in what kinds of crystals are needed. I suspect most things being built and designed today use the crystal as a "master oscillator" that is used to drive some sort of synthesis chain. The need for "I have to have a 12.345,324 Hz crystal" is going away.
On Mar 11, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Bryan _ bpl521@outlook.com wrote:
Disappearing or manufacturing just moving overseas?. Video at the bottom is interesting, classic.
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.LElrlkkbByR3K%2f6qfaeHjg&pid=Api]http://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
So Long, and Thanks for all the Crystalshttp://hackaday.com/2017/03/11/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-crystals/
hackaday.com
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:39:02 +0100
Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Some claims that MEMS will kill crystals. It will surely eat a good
market share, but I think there is applications where MEMS is not mature
enough compared to crystals.
MEMS is quite mature, it's just that it is playing a different game.
While with quartz (and other piezoelectric crystals) we know how
to design a crystal to frequency, things aren't so simple for MEMS.
Simply scaling the design doesn't work apparently.
What they instead do is to use the MEMS oscillator as a reference
for a PLL locked VCO. As the whole thing is going to be a few mm^2
of silicon anyways, reserving some µm^2 for the PLL and VCO don't
cost much. And it gives the ability to "tune" the oscillator
for the frequency needed after production (the same technique is used
with "programmable" crystal oscillators). Of course, having a PLL,
mostly a fractional-N PLL, causes a lot of spurs in the output,
which can cause problems, depending on the application.
The big promise of MEMS oscillators was, that they'd be cheaper (due to
integration in silicon) and used less power. As far as I am aware,
neither promise could be upheld. MEMS need a quite different production
process than normal digital electronics, hence it's usually more economic
to have the oscillator on a different die than the digital chip. As for
power consumption, the low power MEMS are about at the same level as the
low power 32kHz crystal oscillators (and also in the same frequency).
One place where MEMS are exceedingly good is temperature characteristics.
Silabs demonstrated an oscillator, which, prior to any compensation,
exhibited only <5ppm shift over the full temperature range.
As for the demise of single quartz crystal units, I think that is not
going to happen any soon. It is rather that the economics shift. Most
of the single crystals are used as reference oscillators for digital
and analog/RF chips. Ie most these chips have an internal oscillator
that uses an external crystal to drive their internall VCO+PLL.
As the crystal frequency is dictated by the frequencies these chips
have to generate, there is a kind of standardization going on due to
the limited number of protocols that need special frequencies. Two very
common frequencies are 12MHz, for USB, and 25MHz, for Ethernet.
16MHz is base for CAN, some Wifi chipsets and USB as well. Then there
are a couple of frequencies that are related to GSM, UMTS and the various
other telephone standards. There are maybe a handfull of these frequencies,
which "everyone" needs (ie are used in many high volume products). These are
the crystals we will be able around for the forseeable future. There are
other frequencies that are less used, which you will still get, but need
to pay more or are made to order. Frequencies for protocols that are
not used much anymore, or can be easily generated from another frequency
that is more common, are bound to die out (as has happend with all those
UART crystals, which are only used in legacy systems or for historical reasons).
For specialized applications, where the crystal is not directly interfaced
to a chip that provides the oscillator, it is more convenient for the
designer to just use a complete oscillator than to design his own oscillator
with all the problems that it involves. Getting such a device reliable to
work in production volumes is nothing an average engineer without prior
experience in can just pull off. Heck, I design my stuff to use oscialltors
instead of crystals, because that's one thing less I have to care about.
But even with these oscillators, there is only a limited number of frequencies
that are easy to get. Those are again the standard frequencies from above,
and a couple of round numbers (like multiples of 10MHz)
Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
For other common crystal frequencies, let's not forget
3.579545 MHz and 4x that - NTSC TV color burst
and others listed here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator_frequencies
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Attila Kinali attila@kinali.ch wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:39:02 +0100
Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Some claims that MEMS will kill crystals. It will surely eat a good
market share, but I think there is applications where MEMS is not mature
enough compared to crystals.
MEMS is quite mature, it's just that it is playing a different game.
While with quartz (and other piezoelectric crystals) we know how
to design a crystal to frequency, things aren't so simple for MEMS.
Simply scaling the design doesn't work apparently.
What they instead do is to use the MEMS oscillator as a reference
for a PLL locked VCO. As the whole thing is going to be a few mm^2
of silicon anyways, reserving some µm^2 for the PLL and VCO don't
cost much. And it gives the ability to "tune" the oscillator
for the frequency needed after production (the same technique is used
with "programmable" crystal oscillators). Of course, having a PLL,
mostly a fractional-N PLL, causes a lot of spurs in the output,
which can cause problems, depending on the application.
The big promise of MEMS oscillators was, that they'd be cheaper (due to
integration in silicon) and used less power. As far as I am aware,
neither promise could be upheld. MEMS need a quite different production
process than normal digital electronics, hence it's usually more economic
to have the oscillator on a different die than the digital chip. As for
power consumption, the low power MEMS are about at the same level as the
low power 32kHz crystal oscillators (and also in the same frequency).
One place where MEMS are exceedingly good is temperature characteristics.
Silabs demonstrated an oscillator, which, prior to any compensation,
exhibited only <5ppm shift over the full temperature range.
As for the demise of single quartz crystal units, I think that is not
going to happen any soon. It is rather that the economics shift. Most
of the single crystals are used as reference oscillators for digital
and analog/RF chips. Ie most these chips have an internal oscillator
that uses an external crystal to drive their internall VCO+PLL.
As the crystal frequency is dictated by the frequencies these chips
have to generate, there is a kind of standardization going on due to
the limited number of protocols that need special frequencies. Two very
common frequencies are 12MHz, for USB, and 25MHz, for Ethernet.
16MHz is base for CAN, some Wifi chipsets and USB as well. Then there
are a couple of frequencies that are related to GSM, UMTS and the various
other telephone standards. There are maybe a handfull of these frequencies,
which "everyone" needs (ie are used in many high volume products). These
are
the crystals we will be able around for the forseeable future. There are
other frequencies that are less used, which you will still get, but need
to pay more or are made to order. Frequencies for protocols that are
not used much anymore, or can be easily generated from another frequency
that is more common, are bound to die out (as has happend with all those
UART crystals, which are only used in legacy systems or for historical
reasons).
For specialized applications, where the crystal is not directly interfaced
to a chip that provides the oscillator, it is more convenient for the
designer to just use a complete oscillator than to design his own
oscillator
with all the problems that it involves. Getting such a device reliable to
work in production volumes is nothing an average engineer without prior
experience in can just pull off. Heck, I design my stuff to use oscialltors
instead of crystals, because that's one thing less I have to care about.
But even with these oscillators, there is only a limited number of
frequencies
that are easy to get. Those are again the standard frequencies from above,
and a couple of round numbers (like multiples of 10MHz)
Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
--
--Jim Harman