Availability of 3458A in Europe after the end of 2016.
The 3458A page on the Keysight website is interesting.
"Notice for European Union Customers: This product is not updated to EU
RoHS compliance and can be ordered via Keysight directly or Keysight
Authorized Distributors until 31 December 2016. Beyond this date, the
product can still be purchased from Keysight Authorized Distributors.
Please contact Keysight Authorized Distributors or your local Keysight
sales representative for quotation and ordering."
It seems you can't buy it from Keysight, but you can from their
distributors. But most times I've contacted Keysight about buying things,
they tell me to get them from their distributors anyway.
If I interpret
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rohs-compliance-and-guidance
correctly, nobody should be stick non-compliant things in the EU market.
I can't be bothered to read in detail the
"DIRECTIVE 2011/65/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 8
June 2011 on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in
electrical and electronic equipment (recast)"
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:174:0088:0110:EN:PDF
as I some paint I want to watch dry. But a cursory glance shows exceptions,
but none seem relevant to a 3458A.
Dave
As far as I can interpret the directive, not being an expert on any things
legal:
It looks like they are exploiting the difference in definitions between to
"make available on the market" and to "place on the market", where to "place
on the market" is defined as to "make available on the market for the first
time".
The legal restriction states that "Member States shall ensure that EEE
placed on the market, including cables and ... , does not contain the
substances listed in ...". Please note that there is only a "placed on the
market" phrase in there, not a "made available on the market" or an
equivalent.
It therefore does not explicitly restrict making equipment available on the
market in general, but only the placement of it on the market - that is the
"first time" "making it available on the market".
Therefore it would be allowed NOW (since we don't have 31.12.2016 yet) to
sell said equipment to a distributor, a company that is, from a legal
perspective, an independent economic operator. This "for the first time"
sale, once it has happened inside the EU, would constitute the "placement on
the market", and as of now, it's still legal. The distributor may own and
stock the items in question for an indefinite time (this is not restricted)
and also continue to sell them. Subsequent resale is only "making available
on the market", not "placement on the market" as the sale of each item is
not happening "for the first time" any more (since this has already been
done in the original sale from the manufacturer to the distributor, before
the restriction went into effect).
Dimitrij
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)"
drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:57 PM
Subject: [volt-nuts] Availability of 3458A in Europe after the end of 2016.
The 3458A page on the Keysight website is interesting.
"Notice for European Union Customers: This product is not updated to EU
RoHS compliance and can be ordered via Keysight directly or Keysight
Authorized Distributors until 31 December 2016. Beyond this date, the
product can still be purchased from Keysight Authorized Distributors.
Please contact Keysight Authorized Distributors or your local Keysight
sales representative for quotation and ordering."
It seems you can't buy it from Keysight, but you can from their
distributors. But most times I've contacted Keysight about buying things,
they tell me to get them from their distributors anyway.
If I interpret
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rohs-compliance-and-guidance
correctly, nobody should be stick non-compliant things in the EU market.
I can't be bothered to read in detail the
"DIRECTIVE 2011/65/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 8
June 2011 on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in
electrical and electronic equipment (recast)"
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:174:0088:0110:EN:PDF
as I some paint I want to watch dry. But a cursory glance shows
exceptions,
but none seem relevant to a 3458A.
Dave
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hi all
Just got back from Electronica in Munich where i did have a small conversation with keysight people about 3458A Rohs issue, they have a vague idea about when it will kick-in , but where sure about availability of the meter in the future.
Probably they have some kind of workaround to avoid shortage on the market. (not that a beast like 3458A goes by the millions)
As an EU member myself and maker/seller of electronics equipment shall I say that EU regulation are at least byzantine and usually you can read it from left to right and reverse , so let’s see what happens.
Il giorno 29 ott 2016, alle ore 20:13, Dimitrij Klingbeil dklingb@gmail.com ha scritto:
As far as I can interpret the directive, not being an expert on any things legal:
It looks like they are exploiting the difference in definitions between to "make available on the market" and to "place on the market", where to "place on the market" is defined as to "make available on the market for the first time".
The legal restriction states that "Member States shall ensure that EEE placed on the market, including cables and ... , does not contain the substances listed in ...". Please note that there is only a "placed on the market" phrase in there, not a "made available on the market" or an equivalent.
It therefore does not explicitly restrict making equipment available on the market in general, but only the placement of it on the market - that is the "first time" "making it available on the market".
Therefore it would be allowed NOW (since we don't have 31.12.2016 yet) to sell said equipment to a distributor, a company that is, from a legal perspective, an independent economic operator. This "for the first time" sale, once it has happened inside the EU, would constitute the "placement on the market", and as of now, it's still legal. The distributor may own and stock the items in question for an indefinite time (this is not restricted) and also continue to sell them. Subsequent resale is only "making available on the market", not "placement on the market" as the sale of each item is not happening "for the first time" any more (since this has already been done in the original sale from the manufacturer to the distributor, before the restriction went into effect).
Dimitrij
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)" drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:57 PM
Subject: [volt-nuts] Availability of 3458A in Europe after the end of 2016.
The 3458A page on the Keysight website is interesting.
"Notice for European Union Customers: This product is not updated to EU
RoHS compliance and can be ordered via Keysight directly or Keysight
Authorized Distributors until 31 December 2016. Beyond this date, the
product can still be purchased from Keysight Authorized Distributors.
Please contact Keysight Authorized Distributors or your local Keysight
sales representative for quotation and ordering."
It seems you can't buy it from Keysight, but you can from their
distributors. But most times I've contacted Keysight about buying things,
they tell me to get them from their distributors anyway.
If I interpret
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rohs-compliance-and-guidance
correctly, nobody should be stick non-compliant things in the EU market.
I can't be bothered to read in detail the
"DIRECTIVE 2011/65/EU OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 8
June 2011 on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in
electrical and electronic equipment (recast)"
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:174:0088:0110:EN:PDF
as I some paint I want to watch dry. But a cursory glance shows exceptions,
but none seem relevant to a 3458A.
Dave
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
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and follow the instructions there.
In message AF253995-1FF5-4B6A-B8EC-F6A1A4876BF8@sica-it.com, Alessandro Saporetti writes:
Just got back from Electronica in Munich where i did have a small
conversation with keysight people about 3458A Rohs issue, they have
a vague idea about when it will kick-in , but where sure about
availability of the meter in the future.
It's really very simple:
If you can call your operation "scientific" in any reasonable sense
of the word, ROHS does not apply to you, because you're supposed to
know how to handle Harmful Substances (the "HS" in ROHS") properly.
Keysight they can sell all the HP3458's they want to metrology labs
etc, but they cannot "sell it retail to anybody".
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
On 13 November 2016 at 09:19, Alessandro Saporetti saposoft@sica-it.com
wrote:
Hi all
Just got back from Electronica in Munich where i did have a small
conversation with keysight people about 3458A Rohs issue, they have a vague
idea about when it will kick-in , but where sure about availability of the
meter in the future.
Probably they have some kind of workaround to avoid shortage on the
market. (not that a beast like 3458A goes by the millions)
The problem might be a bit more complicated than just the lead in solder -
see for example the recent discussion about low-EMF from solder with
cadmium in.
As an EU member myself and maker/seller of electronics equipment shall I
say that EU regulation are at least byzantine and usually you can read it
from left to right and reverse , so let’s see what happens.
I feel one advantage of the UK leaving the European Union. The regulations
we introduce will not have to have such a large committee for approval, and
don't need to be translated in numerous different languages.
Of course, the other advantage, is I will be able to buy a 3458A if I want
to !!
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT,
UK.
Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.
http://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel: 07910 441670 / +44 7910 441670 (0900 to 2100 GMT only please)
RoHS does not apply to test equipment.
It was meant to keep hazardous substances out of the
hands of consumers, and the trash.
-Chuck Harris
Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
On 13 November 2016 at 09:19, Alessandro Saporetti saposoft@sica-it.com
wrote:
Hi all
Just got back from Electronica in Munich where i did have a small
conversation with keysight people about 3458A Rohs issue, they have a vague
idea about when it will kick-in , but where sure about availability of the
meter in the future.
Probably they have some kind of workaround to avoid shortage on the
market. (not that a beast like 3458A goes by the millions)
The problem might be a bit more complicated than just the lead in solder -
see for example the recent discussion about low-EMF from solder with
cadmium in.
As an EU member myself and maker/seller of electronics equipment shall I
say that EU regulation are at least byzantine and usually you can read it
from left to right and reverse , so let’s see what happens.
I feel one advantage of the UK leaving the European Union. The regulations
we introduce will not have to have such a large committee for approval, and
don't need to be translated in numerous different languages.
Of course, the other advantage, is I will be able to buy a 3458A if I want
to !!
Dr. David Kirkby Ph.D CEng MIET
On 13 November 2016 at 14:17, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:
RoHS does not apply to test equipment.
Where do you get that from? When I was looking briefly the other day, there
did not seem to be a lot of exemptions.
I'm sure Keysight must be a bit more on the ball than to put that notice,
if RoHS did not apply to test equipment.
There's a similar notice about a power supply I have - 6674A (70 V @ 30 A
PSU).
Dave
I suspect there are many many exemptions through categorical types. I have quite a few discrete components at home and subassembly type components of server class systems at work (power supplies in particular) that are 'compliant by exemption' according to the documentation. Yet on the component itself it says 'RoHS'.
On Nov 13, 2016, at 10:34, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote:
On 13 November 2016 at 14:17, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:
RoHS does not apply to test equipment.
Where do you get that from? When I was looking briefly the other day, there
did not seem to be a lot of exemptions.
I'm sure Keysight must be a bit more on the ball than to put that notice,
if RoHS did not apply to test equipment.
There's a similar notice about a power supply I have - 6674A (70 V @ 30 A
PSU).
Dave
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and follow the instructions there.
Years ago, when RoHS was first implemented, they
actually told everyone in industry what the exempted
areas were. There are other exemptions, like
batteries... which is why you can still use lead acid
and NiCd batteries. There are also total exemptions
for the military, and aviation... including space
vehicles, and those that make products for the military
and aviation...
Years ago, when someone paid me to care, I read all
of the RoHS wording, and wrote a memo detailing what
RoHS meant to the customer I was working with. The
exemptions are rather clear, in a lawyerly sort of way...
though don't ask me to find them again... and no, the
memo wasn't mine to keep, I left it with my customer.
The intention of RoHS, and those that implemented it,
is to make it appear to the public as though it is
going to save the world... the reality is it has
hundreds of niches carved out of it for this and that
special interest.
As to Keysight... I think all of their name changes
give a little clue to why they would write such stuff
in their sales literature.
Test equipment, in general, is meant for trained people
that work in industry. If it is sold to just anyone,
it becomes a consumer product, complete with all of
the consumer liability rules, and government regulations.
Imagine a power supply that can produce lethal voltages
and currents, with binding posts on the front panel,
being sold to Harry Homeowner? All that work done to
protect him from killing himself in his home negated
by a power supply.... Or, a 1KW microwave amplifier that
terminates in a high quality N connector? Or a signal
generator that can pump out watts in the middle of your
favorite TV channel? Or worse still, the cell phone
band? Or, consider cell phone test equipment that can
decode any phone signal, and can recreate signals with
any identifiers they want? Or a GPS simulator, in league
with a 1KW amplifier?
Companies like Keysight have long had policies that
forbid selling to individuals. It's the lawyers
talking.
-Chuck Harris
Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
On 13 November 2016 at 14:17, Chuck Harris cfharris@erols.com wrote:
RoHS does not apply to test equipment.
Where do you get that from? When I was looking briefly the other day, there
did not seem to be a lot of exemptions.
I'm sure Keysight must be a bit more on the ball than to put that notice,
if RoHS did not apply to test equipment.
There's a similar notice about a power supply I have - 6674A (70 V @ 30 A
PSU).
Dave
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
In message 5828A747.90007@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
The intention of RoHS, and those that implemented it,
is to make it appear to the public as though it is
going to save the world... the reality is it has
hundreds of niches carved out of it for this and that
special interest.
That is needlessly harsh.
If you look at the amounts of heavy metals RoHS has prevented from
entering the consumer waste stream, it has made a LOT of difference.
I 100% agree that RoHS is far from optimal, but making it sound
like empty a potempkin village is a gross misrepresentation of its
effect.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.