I think that even with a rudimentary and incomplete knowledge of the road network one could detect spoofing a car navigation system. The car would show up inside buildings and farm fields and lakes. You'd see this even on a very poor map. If the spoofer moved the signal even 200 yards the match to the roads would be total rubbish and non sense. It would be detectable even using very old maps with many segments missing On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Ron Bean <time@rbean.users.panix.com> wrote: > >In a car it is even easier. The car nav system KNOWS it must be on a > >roadway. The car's ground track (positional history) must be on a road. > > That's assuming the GPS company keeps their maps up to date (it doesn't > matter how often you update the maps in the device if the company's maps > don't keep up with reality). New roads appear, old ones occasionally get > moved. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California

Hi In the case of a spoof, the target is likely one specific vehicle. You care about the armored car with the big pile of gold bars in it. The objective is not to get him to drive into a bridge abutment. It’s to get him to turn left on the wrong road. You tailor the spoof so everything “makes sense”. Likely you spend a *lot* of time planning just how the spoof will happen and what is down that road he turned on. This isn’t a random process …. In the same sense, if you are going to spoof time, you do it for a specific reason and with a specific target. You want the bank vault to open early. You want the stock trade to get time stamped “just right”. There’s no need to throw off every clock everywhere if you can identify autonomous GPS based time islands. Finding those time islands takes work. So does tracking down the armored car with the gold in it …. Bob > On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:35 AM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@gmail.com> wrote: > > I think that even with a rudimentary and incomplete knowledge of the road > network one could detect spoofing a car navigation system. The car would > show up inside buildings and farm fields and lakes. You'd see this even > on a very poor map. > > If the spoofer moved the signal even 200 yards the match to the roads would > be total rubbish and non sense. It would be detectable even using very old > maps with many segments missing > > > > On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Ron Bean <time@rbean.users.panix.com> > wrote: > >>> In a car it is even easier. The car nav system KNOWS it must be on a >>> roadway. The car's ground track (positional history) must be on a road. >> >> That's assuming the GPS company keeps their maps up to date (it doesn't >> matter how often you update the maps in the device if the company's maps >> don't keep up with reality). New roads appear, old ones occasionally get >> moved. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hmmm.... Bob, It seems you have given a considerable amount of thought to armored cars, gold bars, bank vaults, and stock trades... Is there anything you want to tell us LOL Ken WA2LBI On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > In the case of a spoof, the target is likely one specific vehicle. You > care about the > armored car with the big pile of gold bars in it. The objective is not to > get him to > drive into a bridge abutment. It’s to get him to turn left on the wrong > road. You tailor > the spoof so everything “makes sense”. Likely you spend a *lot* of time > planning > just how the spoof will happen and what is down that road he turned on. > This isn’t > a random process …. > > In the same sense, if you are going to spoof time, you do it for a > specific reason and > with a specific target. You want the bank vault to open early. You want > the stock trade > to get time stamped “just right”. There’s no need to throw off every clock > everywhere if > you can identify autonomous GPS based time islands. Finding those time > islands takes > work. So does tracking down the armored car with the gold in it …. > > Bob > >

On 8/15/17 9:58 AM, Ken Winterling wrote: > Hmmm.... Bob, > > It seems you have given a considerable amount of thought to armored cars, > gold bars, bank vaults, and stock trades... Is there anything you want to > tell us LOL > There's a lot of really neat time-nuts gear out there that's expensive. Building your own H-maser might be more of a challenge than a clever bank robbery (leaving aside the legal, moral, and ethical implications). Or maybe Bob's writing a book

Hi One has to finance retirement somehow :) It’s also a pretty simple way to demonstrate the what and why of a spoof without getting into anything so obscure that it can’t be understood. A secondary point *might* be that indeed, the stuff we are talking about is mainly useful to “bad guys”. Bob > On Aug 15, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Ken Winterling <wa2lbi@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hmmm.... Bob, > > It seems you have given a considerable amount of thought to armored cars, > gold bars, bank vaults, and stock trades... Is there anything you want to > tell us LOL > > Ken > WA2LBI > > > > > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> In the case of a spoof, the target is likely one specific vehicle. You >> care about the >> armored car with the big pile of gold bars in it. The objective is not to >> get him to >> drive into a bridge abutment. It’s to get him to turn left on the wrong >> road. You tailor >> the spoof so everything “makes sense”. Likely you spend a *lot* of time >> planning >> just how the spoof will happen and what is down that road he turned on. >> This isn’t >> a random process …. >> >> In the same sense, if you are going to spoof time, you do it for a >> specific reason and >> with a specific target. You want the bank vault to open early. You want >> the stock trade >> to get time stamped “just right”. There’s no need to throw off every clock >> everywhere if >> you can identify autonomous GPS based time islands. Finding those time >> islands takes >> work. So does tracking down the armored car with the gold in it …. >> >> Bob >> >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Please remember this is time nuts. This thread is straying far from timing and also becoming speculative instead of informative. /tvb