On 12/8/17 9:29 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > Hi, > > The unloaded Q is above 3 million, which is another way to measure how > unusual these are. > > If I had schematics I would be more inclined to do something. > >> >> >>> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, >>> but very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for >>> measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is >>> why I have not spent quality time to fix it. >>> Don't people *want* a nice quiet oscillator with a slight offset, that way you're already set up for the DMTD measurement.

Hi, There is sources of drift all over the place. The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift. Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can compensate each other. Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always something that drifts, somewhat. Cheers, Magnus On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > Hi All; > > Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components? > > Happy-Merry; > > Thomas Knox > > > > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3 > > Hi > > One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily adjust it by > just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, but > the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill crystal. > The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in series with > the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range down quite > a bit…. > > Bob > >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but should maybe take a look. >> >> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent quality time to fix it. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet. >>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot. >>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement. >>> That sounds ugly. >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal >>>> has simply drifted >>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse >>>> tuning device once >>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across >>>> the coarse tune or in >>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring >>>> things back on >>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts < >>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted >>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning >>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its >>>> specification. >>>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the >>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any >>>> details. >>>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, >>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>>>> 73 >>>>> >>>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Happy Holidays Magnus! What I was wondering was that the BVA is somewhat unique since other oscillators have metal directly deposited over the quartz resonator, where the BVA is capacitive coupled. I was wondering if that made the quartz age less if at all. Cheers; Thomas Knox ________________________________ From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 11:32 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: magnus@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3 Hi, There is sources of drift all over the place. The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift. Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can compensate each other. Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always something that drifts, somewhat. Cheers, Magnus On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote: > Hi All; > > Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components? > > Happy-Merry; > > Thomas Knox > > > > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3 > > Hi > > One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily adjust it by > just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, but > the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill crystal. > The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in series with > the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range down quite > a bit…. > > Bob > >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but should maybe take a look. >> >> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent quality time to fix it. >> >> Cheers, >> Magnus >> >> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet. >>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot. >>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement. >>> That sounds ugly. >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal >>>> has simply drifted >>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse >>>> tuning device once >>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across >>>> the coarse tune or in >>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring >>>> things back on >>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts < >>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted >>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning >>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its >>>> specification. >>>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the >>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any >>>> details. >>>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, >>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>>>> 73 >>>>> >>>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> www.febo.com Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> www.febo.com Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> www.febo.com Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> www.febo.com time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... and follow the instructions there.

Hi The big deal with the BVA is that the blank is “isolated” from the mount by a set of slots in the blank edge. That lets them achieve single plane stress isolation. The intent is to reduce the impact of holder stress as part of aging. Moving the electrodes off of the blank is intended to reduce the stress effects of the thermal mismatch between the electrode and the quartz. There are still *plenty* of reasons for the resonator to age, so no, this does not take aging out of the picture. Bob > On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Tom Knox <actast@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Happy Holidays Magnus! What I was wondering was that the BVA is somewhat unique since other oscillators have metal directly deposited over the quartz resonator, where the BVA is capacitive coupled. I was wondering if that made the quartz age less if at all. > > Cheers; > > Thomas Knox > > > > ________________________________ > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> > Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 11:32 AM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Cc: magnus@rubidium.se > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3 > > Hi, > > There is sources of drift all over the place. > > The crystal has drift in it, the oscillator core has sources of drift. > > Already within a crystal there is a bunch of sources. Some can > compensate each other. > > Improvements in production have reduced effects, but there is always > something that drifts, somewhat. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > On 12/08/2017 06:27 PM, Tom Knox wrote: >> Hi All; >> >> Is the "Aging" generally related to the quartz, or other components? >> >> Happy-Merry; >> >> Thomas Knox >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces@febo.com> on behalf of Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> >> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:58 AM >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3 >> >> Hi >> >> One risk is that the oscillator may have drifted further than one can easily adjust it by >> just changing a select cap. That seems silly when we are talking about < 1 ppm, but >> the 8600 is an unusual OCXO. The electrodes BVA is not your run of the mill crystal. >> The “air gap” (actually a gap in vacuum) puts a pretty small capacitance in series with >> the normal crystal equivalent circuit. That cuts the practical tuning range down quite >> a bit…. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Many include a EFC offset pot, but when you go out of range on that, as I have for one of mine, here is no real option execept pop the lid and potentially find a cap or change a cap. I have not seen any as I recall, but should maybe take a look. >>> >>> However, the value for me is not to have it as sharp 5 MHz source, but very low phase noise and high stability source as reference for measurement. The offset error is less of a concern then, so that is why I have not spent quality time to fix it. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Magnus >>> >>> On 12/08/2017 04:52 PM, paul swed wrote: >>>> I took a quick look at the spec sheet. >>>> It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot. >>>> That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement. >>>> That sounds ugly. >>>> Regards >>>> Paul >>>> WB8TSL >>>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal >>>>> has simply drifted >>>>> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse >>>>> tuning device once >>>>> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across >>>>> the coarse tune or in >>>>> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring >>>>> things back on >>>>> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts < >>>>> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gentlemen, >>>>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted >>>>> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning >>>>> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its >>>>> specification. >>>>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the >>>>> operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>>>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any >>>>> details. >>>>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, >>>>> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>>>>> 73 >>>>>> >>>>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> > American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> > www.febo.com > Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > > >> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >> >> >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> > American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> > www.febo.com > Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > > >> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >> >> >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> www.febo.com<http://www.febo.com> > American Febo Enterprises<http://www.febo.com/> > www.febo.com > Welcome to American Febo Enterprises! Welcome to American Febo Enterprises, a proud subsidiary of International MultiGeek. AFE is an intergalactic consultatorium ... > > >> time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... >> >> >> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > time-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterprises<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts> > www.febo.com > time-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise time and frequency measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > > > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. Angus. On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: > >Gentlemen, >We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification. >Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details. >Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >73 > >Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there.

Hi One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way* off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or a “modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case. Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is the case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of range”. Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing …. Bob > On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: > > > The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but > I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The > temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. > > Angus. > > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: > >> >> Gentlemen, >> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification. >> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details. >> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >> 73 >> >> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

My HP-103AR is low (the 1 MHz output reads 0.999 999 200 MHz) with the fine frequency adjust turned to maximum. I'm a rank amateur at this but the circuit diagram looks like a series-resonant (Pierce) oscillator. Looks like I need to replace one of the capacitors inside the oven with a smaller value. On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 12:40 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? > > Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible > with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way* > off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on > the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true > SC”or a > “modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 > degrees > below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case. > > Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that > is the > case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of > range”. > Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go > that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing …. > > Bob > > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: > > > > > > The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but > > I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The > > temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. > > > > Angus. > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: > > > >> > >> Gentlemen, > >> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted > into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning > coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its > specification. > >> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the > operating voltageis at 24 VDC. > >> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any > details. > >> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken > components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? > >> 73 > >> > >> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Sent from my iPad 4.

That near the end of the temperature range the direction could also give a good indication - assuming that there is only one problem... I think the 8600-3 is still an AT - the 8607 is SC. Angus. On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 15:40:08 -0500, you wrote: >Hi > >One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? > >Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible >with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way* >off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on >the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or a >“modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees >below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case. > >Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is the >case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of range”. >Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go >that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing …. > >Bob > >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> >> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but >> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The >> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. >> >> Angus. >> >> >> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: >> >>> >>> Gentlemen, >>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification. >>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details. >>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>> 73 >>> >>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > >_______________________________________________ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there.

Hi The early HP’s (anything before the 10811 would not have had SC’s in them. Depending on this or that they either had AT’s or BT’s. Bob > On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:06 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@gmail.com> wrote: > > My HP-103AR is low (the 1 MHz output reads 0.999 999 200 MHz) with the fine > frequency adjust turned to maximum. I'm a rank amateur at this but the > circuit diagram looks like a series-resonant (Pierce) oscillator. Looks > like I need to replace one of the capacitors inside the oven with a smaller > value. > > > On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 12:40 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? >> >> Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible >> with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way* >> off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on >> the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true >> SC”or a >> “modified SC”….. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 >> degrees >> below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case. >> >> Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that >> is the >> case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of >> range”. >> Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go >> that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but >>> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The >>> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. >>> >>> Angus. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Gentlemen, >>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted >> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning >> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its >> specification. >>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the >> operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any >> details. >>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken >> components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>>> 73 >>>> >>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > -- > Sent from my iPad 4. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Hi It might be, if it is then an upper turn in the 80C range is not all that crazy. Bob > On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: > > > That near the end of the temperature range the direction could also > give a good indication - assuming that there is only one problem... > > I think the 8600-3 is still an AT - the 8607 is SC. > > Angus. > > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 15:40:08 -0500, you wrote: > >> Hi >> >> One basic question - Is the frequency high or low? >> >> Assuming it’s an SC and on the lower turn, frequency low is possible >> with an off temperature oven. Frequency high is unlikely unless it’s *way* >> off temperature. How far off turn gives you how much delta F depends on >> the inflection temperature of the crystal. It matters if it’s a “true SC”or a >> “modified SC” > .. If it is a true SC and running at 80C, that’s about 10 degrees >> below inflection. There will not be a lot of frequency change in that case. >> >> Many (but not all) modern crystal processes tend to age positive. If that is the >> case on these parts, a frequency high is the likely outcome of “age out of range”. >> Even with a process that has a known tendency, only about 70% of them go >> that direction over long periods of time. It’s not a perfect thing > . >> >> Bob >> >>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Angus <not.again@btinternet.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> The 8601 that I have was about 2 deg C off turnover when I got it, but >>> I can't remember what sort or frequency error that caused. The >>> temperature coefficient was terrible with that error. >>> >>> Angus. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017 13:05:14 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Gentlemen, >>>> We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its specification. >>>> Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the operating voltageis at 24 VDC. >>>> Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any details. >>>> Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components, isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit? >>>> 73 >>>> >>>> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.