On Nov 17, 2010, at 4:00 AM, volt-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:20:15 -0600 > From: John Lofgren <jlofgren@lsr.com> > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Keithley 2001 - and Tek gear > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com> > Message-ID: > <B1D0388E59D629408AB9FD22E3887B3B5B3C616367@Exchange.lsr.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Not to hijack a thread or get off topic, but that's why we love the older Tek gear. Their documentation was first rate. That voluminous and detailed documentation did come back to bite them, though. > > I read story in " Winning with people: The first 40 years of Tektronix" about the Tek people discovering counterfeit scopes that the military (Navy?) was having built. As part of their contract to supply scopes they had to supply documentation that amounted to a detailed build manual for the product. Once the military customer had the documentation they shopped it around to contract manufacturers and found somebody who would build the scopes to print for, presumably, a lower price than the genuine Tek unit. > > Looks like there is such a thing as too much information :) > > > -John It was a little more complicated -- When I started at Tek in 1961, I was told that in the 50's, during the Korean conflict, Tek had military contracts that stipulated that Tek had to allow other firms to build the mil-spec gear as a matter of national security. Lavoie Labs and Dumont built Tek scopes under these contracts, and then continued to build Tek scope clones for years afterward, on into the 60's, most notably, clones of the 530 and 540 series, which had mil contract provisions on them. Tek of course had the ceramic terminal strips and the others didn't -- Tek made those ceramic strips themselves. Once PCBs became the basis of wiring, the ceramics plant was falling into disuse, so Tek decided to make ceramic CRT jugs. The problems that needed to be solved in getting the glass faceplates and the ceramic jugs to hold hard vacuum were immense. The fact that they did it is pretty amazing. Corning wasn't real pleased about the switch away from glass jugs. Anyway, doing business with the gummint can be profitable but a bit dangerous.

Thanks Dick, that's priceless insight. Can you explain the benefit of the ceramic jug over just plain glass? At 02:50 PM 11/17/2010, Dick Moore wrote: >On Nov 17, 2010, at 4:00 AM, volt-nuts-request@febo.com wrote: > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:20:15 -0600 > > From: John Lofgren <jlofgren@lsr.com> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Keithley 2001 - and Tek gear > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com> > > Message-ID: > > <B1D0388E59D629408AB9FD22E3887B3B5B3C616367@Exchange.lsr.local> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Not to hijack a thread or get off topic, but that's why we love > the older Tek gear. Their documentation was first rate. That > voluminous and detailed documentation did come back to bite them, though. > > > > I read story in " Winning with people: The first 40 years of > Tektronix" about the Tek people discovering counterfeit scopes that > the military (Navy?) was having built. As part of their contract > to supply scopes they had to supply documentation that amounted to > a detailed build manual for the product. Once the military > customer had the documentation they shopped it around to contract > manufacturers and found somebody who would build the scopes to > print for, presumably, a lower price than the genuine Tek unit. > > > > Looks like there is such a thing as too much information :) > > > > > > -John > >It was a little more complicated -- When I started at Tek in 1961, I >was told that in the 50's, during the Korean conflict, Tek had >military contracts that stipulated that Tek had to allow other firms >to build the mil-spec gear as a matter of national security. Lavoie >Labs and Dumont built Tek scopes under these contracts, and then >continued to build Tek scope clones for years afterward, on into the >60's, most notably, clones of the 530 and 540 series, which had mil >contract provisions on them. Tek of course had the ceramic terminal >strips and the others didn't -- Tek made those ceramic strips themselves. > >Once PCBs became the basis of wiring, the ceramics plant was falling >into disuse, so Tek decided to make ceramic CRT jugs. The problems >that needed to be solved in getting the glass faceplates and the >ceramic jugs to hold hard vacuum were immense. The fact that they >did it is pretty amazing. Corning wasn't real pleased about the >switch away from glass jugs. Anyway, doing business with the gummint >can be profitable but a bit dangerous. > > >_______________________________________________ >volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts >and follow the instructions there. Best Wishes, Marv Gozum Philadelphia

Dick Moore wrote: > It was a little more complicated -- When I started at Tek in 1961, I was told that in the 50's, during the Korean > conflict, Tek had military contracts that stipulated that Tek had to allow other firms to build the mil-spec gear as > a matter of national security. Lavoie Labs and Dumont built Tek scopes under these contracts, and then continued to > build Tek scope clones for years afterward, on into the 60's, most notably, clones of the 530 and 540 series, which > had mil contract provisions on them. Tek of course had the ceramic terminal strips and the others didn't -- Tek made > those ceramic strips themselves. To quote Stan Griffiths: " Counterfeit Instruments ------------------------ During the late 50's, and early 60's, at least three different companies produced copies of popular Tektronix oscilloscopes. These instruments were sold to the U.S. Military under large contracts and show up occasionally in the surplus market today. If you are not aware of this situation, you could easily buy one of these bogus instruments thinking it was manufactured by Tektronix because their appearance is so similar to the real thing. These copies provoked a 20-year-long lawsuit for patent infringement against the Federal Government that Tektronix eventually won." - Oscilloscopes Selecting and Restoring a Classic, by Stan Griffiths - ISBN: 0-9633071-5-0, p37. (Apparently self published) He goes on to say the companies are Hickok, Jetronics, and Lavoie. As an additional point, my dad, a life time DOD engineer, once told me that Tektronix refused to make milspec scopes, in the 50's and 60's, because they didn't want to get tied into the government contracting requirements, second sources being among them. All tek scopes, during that time frame, were bought off the shelf. The Hickok, Jetronics, and Lavoie scopes were entirely made at the government's request to fulfill their need for control. They basically told the companies not to worry about the patents, the US would take care of it. -Chuck Harris