Hi All of the systems we have today were designed in an era of Loran being available. The designers of CDMA actually had more experience with Loran timing than they did with GPS. Despite all that *none* of the systems we have today picket Loran as their time source. Without a regulation to make it happen, simple availability isn’t going to do much of anything. Bob > On Oct 25, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm all for a diversity of systems - putting all our eggs in the GPS basket > seems unwise (and I maintain WWV receivers hooked to NTP at home!) > > That said, what kind of demonstration can they do with a single LORAN site? > Or is "Wildwood" a complex with both a primary and a secondary at a short > demonstration baseline? > > Tim N3QE > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Bob >> The system works and they are using the system for various demonstrations >> to government types. It is indeed Washingtons speed to resolution thats >> taking the time. >> So my crystal ball says nothing at all on what and when. >> But that said the fact that its on for a month lets me check some >> references. >> Regards >> Paul >> WB8TSL >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Has there been any indication of just what they eventually will be doing? >>> Is this a never ending series of experiments or do they now have plans >>> to put something more perminanalt on the air? >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2016, at 3:23 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The Wildwood, NJ eLoran transmitter will be continuously broadcasting >>> from >>>> 0900 (EST) on 21 October 2016 through 1200 (EST) on 22 November 2016. >>>> Wildwood will be broadcasting as 8970 Master and Secondary most of the >>> time >>>> but occasionally may operate at other rates. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Paul >>>> WB8TSL >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Magnus wrote: > It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite. No, it's well and truly dead. Of the people I know on the political and regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility of a revival. The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No" is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their jobs. In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people in the know) conclusion. Best regards, Charles

Charles, On 10/26/2016 01:10 AM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > Magnus wrote: > >> It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite. > > No, it's well and truly dead. Of the people I know on the political and > regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility > of a revival. The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No" > is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and > people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their > jobs. > > In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also > dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people > in the know) conclusion. You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet. The 26th Jan issue made people jump. There is a raised awareness that signal redundancy needs to be achieved one way or another. eLoran keeps getting mentioned and is being studies by some. I still doubt it will get of the ground again. If it where available, it would help to serve some use. Won't do all the things we need. I hear both sides mumble. The re-investment is where it probably will fail. Cheers, Magnus

Hi > On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote: > > Charles, > > On 10/26/2016 01:10 AM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: >> Magnus wrote: >> >>> It's interesting in that it's clearly not dead yet, rather the opposite. >> >> No, it's well and truly dead. Of the people I know on the political and >> regulatory sides, not one thinks there is even the slightest possibility >> of a revival. The only chance appears to be if, before the final "No" >> is set in stone, GPS suffered an actual (not hypothetical) breakdown and >> people died because the military or first responders couldn't do their >> jobs. >> >> In many ways, it's reminiscent of the LightSquared fiasco, which also >> dragged on and on to its inevitable and universally foreseen (by people >> in the know) conclusion. > > You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet. > > The 26th Jan issue made people jump. > > There is a raised awareness that signal redundancy needs to be achieved one way or another. eLoran keeps getting mentioned and is being studies by some. > > I still doubt it will get of the ground again. > > If it where available, it would help to serve some use. Won't do all the things we need. > > I hear both sides mumble. The re-investment is where it probably will fail. Indeed, there is an enormous amount of money required to add a “backup” timing system into an already fielded setup. The market forces on things like cell base stations are pushing them towards less redundancy not more redundancy in timing. Those economic realities are not going away any time soon. None of the cell carriers are going to plunk down big money to replace lots of gear unless there is something forcing them to do it. They are hardly the only network operators who have those pressures …. Bob > > Cheers, > Magnus > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Magnus wrote: > You describe why I say it's clearly not dead yet. No, as I said, it is well and truly dead -- all that remains is to sign the death certificate. The decisionmakers have made their final decisions, and further "tests," demonstrations, and whining by proponents is not going to sway them. What I described as the only possible chance doesn't indicate signs of life -- it only raises the miraculous (literally) specter of re-animation of the corpse in case of a chain of events as unlikely to occur as the virgin birth of a human. Nothing that has happened to date (in the way of what some might see as "wake-up calls") has made a picogram of difference to US regulators and policymakers re: eLORAN. Certainly not the Paris attacks. Best regards, Charles