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G

gandalfg8@aol.com

Sun, Jun 30, 2019 11:40 AM

Hi David,
Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware, I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice.
With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only "burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration.
Nigel, GM8PZR

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. David Kirkby drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@lists.febo.com
CC: gandalfg8 gandalfg8@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:55
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor?

n Wed, 26 Jun 2019 at 19:38, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts <
volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Oh boy, that's quite a collection of service notes, and quite some can of
worms:-)
Thanks for the link, I've not seen any of those before and wonder why they
don't include them on the 34970A documentation page?

Nigel, GM8PZR

I did manage to find the service notes myself from the Keysight website, so
I guess they are linked somewhere, but I must admit they are not easy to
find.

I put version 12 of the firmware here - the latest is version 13.

https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/Support/34970A/

so if you want to update the firmware to version 12, you can do. I put some
notes about possible PROMS. To be honest, given the latest (version 13)
PROM is only $41.29 from Keysight, you might consider it less hassle and
better to just buy the chip and fit it. Then you have the latest version,
and no need to mess about. If you send the instrument to Keysight UK for
calibration, you can get the firmware updated free. although they kick up a
bit of argument about it, but I got my 4285A LCR meter updated, and they
have agreed to do likewise for the 34970A.

The 34970A does look a very useful instrument for any volt nut, time nut,
or anyone else that wants to collect electrical data and process it.

Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD,
Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100

volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Hi David, Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware, I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice. With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only "burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration. Nigel, GM8PZR -----Original Message----- From: Dr. David Kirkby <drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> CC: gandalfg8 <gandalfg8@aol.com> Sent: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:55 Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor? n Wed, 26 Jun 2019 at 19:38, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts < volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Oh boy, that's quite a collection of service notes, and quite some can of > worms:-) > Thanks for the link, I've not seen any of those before and wonder why they > don't include them on the 34970A documentation page? > Nigel, GM8PZR > I did manage to find the service notes myself from the Keysight website, so I guess they are linked somewhere, but I must admit they are not easy to find. I put version 12 of the firmware here - the latest is version 13. https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/Support/34970A/ so if you want to update the firmware to version 12, you can do. I put some notes about possible PROMS. To be honest, given the latest (version 13) PROM is only $41.29 from Keysight, you might consider it less hassle and better to just buy the chip and fit it. Then you have the latest version, and no need to mess about. If you send the instrument to Keysight UK for calibration, you can get the firmware updated free. although they kick up a bit of argument about it, but I got my 4285A LCR meter updated, and they have agreed to do likewise for the 34970A. The 34970A does look a very useful instrument for any volt nut, time nut, or anyone else that wants to collect electrical data and process it. Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892 https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100 _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.

DD

Dr. David Kirkby

Sun, Jun 30, 2019 6:06 PM

n Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 12:40, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts <
volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi David,
Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware,
I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update
anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice.
With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on
replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only
"burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before
calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was
carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on
the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and
rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by
burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration.
Nigel, GM8PZR

I did not notice the 4-hour burn in period. That makes life a lot easier.

I thought about buying one of these Caddock USF370-10.0M-0.01%-5PPM
resistors

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/caddock-electronics-inc/USF370-10.0M-0.01-5PPM/USF370-10.0M-T-5PPM-ND/2139005

10 M ohm, 0.01%, 5 ppm/deg C. Then put it in a box. It's not good enough to
perform a calibration, but not so far off. The 90-day specification for 10
M ohm of the data logger is +/- 2.1 k ohm, and the 1-year specification is
+/- 4.1 k ohm.

For 100 M ohm, both the 90-day and 1-year specifications are +/- 910 k ohm.
I can't find any close tolerance 100 M ohm resistors around. Vishey makes
some 0.5%, but I can't find anyone that stocks a small quantity. Digikey
carries them, but the minimum order quantity is 100 pieces, which is
totally out of the question. There is a guy from Ukraine selling what are
supposedly close tolerance resistors, but I have no idea what they are
actually like.

--
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD,
Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100

n Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 12:40, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts < volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hi David, > Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware, > I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update > anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice. > With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on > replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only > "burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before > calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was > carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on > the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and > rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by > burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration. > Nigel, GM8PZR > I did not notice the 4-hour burn in period. That makes life a lot easier. I thought about buying one of these Caddock USF370-10.0M-0.01%-5PPM resistors https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/caddock-electronics-inc/USF370-10.0M-0.01-5PPM/USF370-10.0M-T-5PPM-ND/2139005 10 M ohm, 0.01%, 5 ppm/deg C. Then put it in a box. It's not good enough to perform a calibration, but not so far off. The 90-day specification for 10 M ohm of the data logger is +/- 2.1 k ohm, and the 1-year specification is +/- 4.1 k ohm. For 100 M ohm, both the 90-day and 1-year specifications are +/- 910 k ohm. I can't find any close tolerance 100 M ohm resistors around. Vishey makes some 0.5%, but I can't find anyone that stocks a small quantity. Digikey carries them, but the minimum order quantity is 100 pieces, which is totally out of the question. There is a guy from Ukraine selling what are supposedly close tolerance resistors, but I have no idea what they are actually like. -- Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892 https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100

DC

David C. Partridge

Sun, Jun 30, 2019 7:31 PM

Vishay will sell direct in single units any value/tolerance in their
precision bulk foil resistor range.

There's a non-trivial lead time but ...

David

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
David Kirkby
Sent: 30 June 2019 19:06
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Cc: gandalfg8@aol.com
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor?

n Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 12:40, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts <
volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote:

Hi David,
Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware,
I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update
anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice.
With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on
replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only
"burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before
calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was
carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on
the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and
rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by
burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration.
Nigel, GM8PZR

I did not notice the 4-hour burn in period. That makes life a lot easier.

I thought about buying one of these Caddock USF370-10.0M-0.01%-5PPM
resistors

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/caddock-electronics-inc/USF370-1
0.0M-0.01-5PPM/USF370-10.0M-T-5PPM-ND/2139005

10 M ohm, 0.01%, 5 ppm/deg C. Then put it in a box. It's not good enough to
perform a calibration, but not so far off. The 90-day specification for 10
M ohm of the data logger is +/- 2.1 k ohm, and the 1-year specification is
+/- 4.1 k ohm.

For 100 M ohm, both the 90-day and 1-year specifications are +/- 910 k ohm.
I can't find any close tolerance 100 M ohm resistors around. Vishey makes
some 0.5%, but I can't find anyone that stocks a small quantity. Digikey
carries them, but the minimum order quantity is 100 pieces, which is
totally out of the question. There is a guy from Ukraine selling what are
supposedly close tolerance resistors, but I have no idea what they are
actually like.

--
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD,
Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100

volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Vishay will sell direct in single units any value/tolerance in their precision bulk foil resistor range. There's a non-trivial lead time but ... David -----Original Message----- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 30 June 2019 19:06 To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement Cc: gandalfg8@aol.com Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor? n Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 12:40, Nigel Clarke via volt-nuts < volt-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hi David, > Many thanks for your notes re the ICs and and for the version 12 firmware, > I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'll perform the firmware update > anyway but it's certainly good to have the choice. > With regards to the 400K resistor replacement, the HP service note on > replacing this doesn't include any instructions for cleaning and the only > "burn-in" requirement is to leave the unit running for four hours before > calibration, so presumably that's all you'd get if the replacement was > carried out by Keysight themselves.Obviously it doesn't hurt to improve on > the minimum but I would expect that careful cleaning of the component and > rework area with 99% isopropyl alcohol should be adequate followed by > burn-in as suggested, then keep an ongoing eye on the calibration. > Nigel, GM8PZR > I did not notice the 4-hour burn in period. That makes life a lot easier. I thought about buying one of these Caddock USF370-10.0M-0.01%-5PPM resistors https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/caddock-electronics-inc/USF370-1 0.0M-0.01-5PPM/USF370-10.0M-T-5PPM-ND/2139005 10 M ohm, 0.01%, 5 ppm/deg C. Then put it in a box. It's not good enough to perform a calibration, but not so far off. The 90-day specification for 10 M ohm of the data logger is +/- 2.1 k ohm, and the 1-year specification is +/- 4.1 k ohm. For 100 M ohm, both the 90-day and 1-year specifications are +/- 910 k ohm. I can't find any close tolerance 100 M ohm resistors around. Vishey makes some 0.5%, but I can't find anyone that stocks a small quantity. Digikey carries them, but the minimum order quantity is 100 pieces, which is totally out of the question. There is a guy from Ukraine selling what are supposedly close tolerance resistors, but I have no idea what they are actually like. -- Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892 https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100 _______________________________________________ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.

DC

David C. Partridge

Sun, Jun 30, 2019 8:10 PM

Do expect some "sticker shock"!

-----Original Message-----
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of David
C. Partridge
Sent: 30 June 2019 20:31
To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement'
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor?

Vishay will sell direct in single units any value/tolerance in their
precision bulk foil resistor range.

There's a non-trivial lead time but ...

David

Do expect some "sticker shock"! -----Original Message----- From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of David C. Partridge Sent: 30 June 2019 20:31 To: 'Discussion of precise voltage measurement' Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How should I clean a 400 k ohm resistor? Vishay will sell direct in single units any value/tolerance in their precision bulk foil resistor range. There's a non-trivial lead time but ... David

DD

Dr. David Kirkby

Sun, Jun 30, 2019 8:53 PM

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 21:11, David C. Partridge <
david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote:

Do expect some "sticker shock"!

I've not come across that expression before, but a Google indicates you
probably mean a high price! I guess it gives me more of an excuse to buy an
8.5 digit meter!

--
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET
Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD,
Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 at 21:11, David C. Partridge < david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk> wrote: > Do expect some "sticker shock"! > I've not come across that expression before, but a Google indicates you probably mean a high price! I guess it gives me more of an excuse to buy an 8.5 digit meter! -- Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Kirkby Microwave Ltd Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, CHELMSFORD, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales as company number 08914892 https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100