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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB software for PC

HM
Hal Murray
Sat, Oct 29, 2016 9:10 PM

Any freeware out there to decode WWVB or any of the other standards out
there? Using an audio card and pc?

The low cost WWVB receivers put out an on/off signal which can be wired up to
a modem control signal.

Many many years ago, I found some software that decoded that.  Or tried to.
I never got it working well enough to be interesting.  Too much EMI or
something like that.

I'm pretty sure it was setup to feed ntpd via SHM, but I never got that far.

--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.

> Any freeware out there to decode WWVB or any of the other standards out > there? Using an audio card and pc? The low cost WWVB receivers put out an on/off signal which can be wired up to a modem control signal. Many many years ago, I found some software that decoded that. Or tried to. I never got it working well enough to be interesting. Too much EMI or something like that. I'm pretty sure it was setup to feed ntpd via SHM, but I never got that far. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
V
Vlad
Wed, Nov 2, 2016 4:05 PM

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation
(transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ?
I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB
antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its
handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no
fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio
clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal
oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it.
The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches
without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to
get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM.

--
WBW,

V.P.

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation (transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ? I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it. The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM. -- WBW, V.P.
CA
Chris Albertson
Wed, Nov 2, 2016 5:07 PM

If the PC's clock is being disciplined by NTP oe "whatever" the WWVB
simulator would not even have to "know" and would just use the system
clock.  So I doubt you will find a simulator that explicitly makes use of
a reference clock.  For your purpose the PC's clock could even be set using
Internet pool servers, typically this gets you to within a couple tens of
milliseconds.  The GPS will keep the PC's clock ate the tens of
microseconds level, You don't need that for setting wrist watch.

One problem is the new phase modulation that WWVB is using.  If you want to
emulate that you might want to use an audio interface that can output the
60KHz RF signal directly.  Most audio interfaces only go up to about
20KHz.    You need the 60KHz interface so you can keep the phase aligned
with the UTC second.

Software would be easy to write, just output 60,000 numbers per second to
the port.

But if you already have a uP that can simulate WWVB why not just add a
little bit of code you read the tie of day over a serial port

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Vlad time@patoka.org wrote:

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation
(transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ?
I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB
antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its
handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no fancy
parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio clock" has
under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal oscillator and every
time it needs the time to be setup on it.
The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches
without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to get
WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM.

--
WBW,

V.P.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

If the PC's clock is being disciplined by NTP oe "whatever" the WWVB simulator would not even have to "know" and would just use the system clock. So I doubt you will find a simulator that explicitly makes use of a reference clock. For your purpose the PC's clock could even be set using Internet pool servers, typically this gets you to within a couple tens of milliseconds. The GPS will keep the PC's clock ate the tens of microseconds level, You don't need that for setting wrist watch. One problem is the new phase modulation that WWVB is using. If you want to emulate that you might want to use an audio interface that can output the 60KHz RF signal directly. Most audio interfaces only go up to about 20KHz. You need the 60KHz interface so you can keep the phase aligned with the UTC second. Software would be easy to write, just output 60,000 numbers per second to the port. But if you already have a uP that can simulate WWVB why not just add a little bit of code you read the tie of day over a serial port On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Vlad <time@patoka.org> wrote: > > > I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation > (transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ? > I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB > antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its > handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no fancy > parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio clock" has > under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal oscillator and every > time it needs the time to be setup on it. > The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches > without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to get > WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM. > > -- > WBW, > > V.P. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California
TV
Tom Van Baak
Wed, Nov 2, 2016 5:35 PM

Hi Vlad,

There's lots of postings about this in the archives. For playing at home I usually use a GPSDO/1PPS as the time reference and don't worry about how accurate the 60 kHz carrier is. There should be lots of postings in the archives about all this.

The code itself is very simple. See for example:
http://www.leapsecond.com/notes/wwvb1.htm

You can also use PC audio through headphones as a transmitter for both the carrier and the subcode:
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-November/060937.html

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad" time@patoka.org
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB software for PC

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation
(transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ?
I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB
antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its
handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no
fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio
clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal
oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it.
The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches
without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to
get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM.

--
WBW,

V.P.

Hi Vlad, There's lots of postings about this in the archives. For playing at home I usually use a GPSDO/1PPS as the time reference and don't worry about how accurate the 60 kHz carrier is. There should be lots of postings in the archives about all this. The code itself is very simple. See for example: http://www.leapsecond.com/notes/wwvb1.htm You can also use PC audio through headphones as a transmitter for *both* the carrier and the subcode: https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-November/060937.html /tvb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vlad" <time@patoka.org> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB software for PC > I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation > (transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ? > I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB > antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However its > handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no > fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio > clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal > oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it. > The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches > without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to > get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM. > > -- > WBW, > > V.P.
V
Vlad
Wed, Nov 2, 2016 5:46 PM

Chris,

Thanks for the quick reply ! I am thinking to use something like
Raspberry PI + little "periphery" to transmit on 60Khz. May be General
IO pins and some buffer (like 75179) plus loopstick antenna will do the
trick. I have a NTP server in my lab which sync by 1PPS coming from
T-Bolt. So, the source should be good enough to sync the wrist watch.

The uP project I have - was bought as a kit. So, I am not the
author/creator of that. I just get parts together and put them to the
nice project box.
I think I am capable to create such thing by myself, but its probably
not worth to re-invent the wheel. I think the idea is already "in air"
For example: Circuit Cellar 2014 Digital Archive: Issue 288 July 2014,
page 57-

The phase modulation is interesting feature to have. Its in my "long
waiting list" to have a look to it more closely and probably try to do
something like this.

On 2016-11-02 13:07, Chris Albertson wrote:

If the PC's clock is being disciplined by NTP oe "whatever" the WWVB
simulator would not even have to "know" and would just use the system
clock.  So I doubt you will find a simulator that explicitly makes
use of a reference clock.  For your purpose the PC's clock could even
be set using Internet pool servers, typically this gets you to within
a couple tens of milliseconds.  The GPS will keep the PC's clock ate
the tens of microseconds level, You don't need that for setting wrist
watch.

One problem is the new phase modulation that WWVB is using.  If you
want to emulate that you might want to use an audio interface that can
output the 60KHz RF signal directly.  Most audio interfaces only go
up to about 20KHz.    You need the 60KHz interface so you can keep the
phase aligned with the UTC second.

Software would be easy to write, just output 60,000 numbers per second
to the port.

But if you already have a uP that can simulate WWVB why not just add a
little bit of code you read the tie of day over a serial port

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Vlad time@patoka.org wrote:

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation
(transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ?
I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected
WWVB antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range.
However its handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers.
There is no fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many
"travel radio clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box
using internal oscillator and every time it needs the time to be
setup on it.
The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some
watches without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a
challenge to get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM.

--
WBW,

V.P.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [1]
and follow the instructions there.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

Links:

[1] https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

--
WBW,

V.P.

Chris, Thanks for the quick reply ! I am thinking to use something like Raspberry PI + little "periphery" to transmit on 60Khz. May be General IO pins and some buffer (like 75179) plus loopstick antenna will do the trick. I have a NTP server in my lab which sync by 1PPS coming from T-Bolt. So, the source should be good enough to sync the wrist watch. The uP project I have - was bought as a kit. So, I am not the author/creator of that. I just get parts together and put them to the nice project box. I think I am capable to create such thing by myself, but its probably not worth to re-invent the wheel. I think the idea is already "in air" For example: Circuit Cellar 2014 Digital Archive: Issue 288 July 2014, page 57- The phase modulation is interesting feature to have. Its in my "long waiting list" to have a look to it more closely and probably try to do something like this. On 2016-11-02 13:07, Chris Albertson wrote: > If the PC's clock is being disciplined by NTP oe "whatever" the WWVB > simulator would not even have to "know" and would just use the system > clock. So I doubt you will find a simulator that explicitly makes > use of a reference clock. For your purpose the PC's clock could even > be set using Internet pool servers, typically this gets you to within > a couple tens of milliseconds. The GPS will keep the PC's clock ate > the tens of microseconds level, You don't need that for setting wrist > watch. > > One problem is the new phase modulation that WWVB is using. If you > want to emulate that you might want to use an audio interface that can > output the 60KHz RF signal directly. Most audio interfaces only go > up to about 20KHz. You need the 60KHz interface so you can keep the > phase aligned with the UTC second. > > Software would be easy to write, just output 60,000 numbers per second > to the port. > > But if you already have a uP that can simulate WWVB why not just add a > little bit of code you read the tie of day over a serial port > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Vlad <time@patoka.org> wrote: > >> I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation >> (transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ? >> I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected >> WWVB antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. >> However its handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. >> There is no fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many >> "travel radio clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box >> using internal oscillator and every time it needs the time to be >> setup on it. >> The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some >> watches without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a >> challenge to get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM. >> >> -- >> WBW, >> >> V.P. >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [1] >> and follow the instructions there. > > -- > > Chris Albertson > Redondo Beach, California > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- WBW, V.P.
V
Vlad
Wed, Nov 2, 2016 8:04 PM

Excellent idea to use the harmonics and sound card ! Thanks ! I'll try
to experiment with that. Probably using  some coil instead of headphones
will eliminate the sound at all.
Then whole project will be kind of trivial with almost no HW work
required. Just another "daemonised" process running on my NTP machine
which push the WWVB through the soundcard.
Interesting ! Thanks again !

On 2016-11-02 13:35, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Hi Vlad,

There's lots of postings about this in the archives. For playing at
home I usually use a GPSDO/1PPS as the time reference and don't worry
about how accurate the 60 kHz carrier is. There should be lots of
postings in the archives about all this.

The code itself is very simple. See for example:
http://www.leapsecond.com/notes/wwvb1.htm

You can also use PC audio through headphones as a transmitter for
both the carrier and the subcode:
https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-November/060937.html

/tvb

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vlad" time@patoka.org
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB software for PC

I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation
(transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ?
I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB
antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However
its
handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no
fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio
clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal
oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it.
The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches
without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to
get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM.

--
WBW,

V.P.


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

--
WBW,

V.P.

Excellent idea to use the harmonics and sound card ! Thanks ! I'll try to experiment with that. Probably using some coil instead of headphones will eliminate the sound at all. Then whole project will be kind of trivial with almost no HW work required. Just another "daemonised" process running on my NTP machine which push the WWVB through the soundcard. Interesting ! Thanks again ! On 2016-11-02 13:35, Tom Van Baak wrote: > Hi Vlad, > > There's lots of postings about this in the archives. For playing at > home I usually use a GPSDO/1PPS as the time reference and don't worry > about how accurate the 60 kHz carrier is. There should be lots of > postings in the archives about all this. > > The code itself is very simple. See for example: > http://www.leapsecond.com/notes/wwvb1.htm > > You can also use PC audio through headphones as a transmitter for > *both* the carrier and the subcode: > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-November/060937.html > > /tvb > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vlad" <time@patoka.org> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB software for PC > >> I am wandering, if anybody seen the projects like WWVB simulation >> (transmitter) using GPS/NTP/whatever as a time reference ? >> I have something similar, which is generic PIC MCU with connected WWVB >> antenna. This box generate WWVB signal for very short range. However >> its >> handy for developing/troubleshooting the WWVB receivers. There is no >> fancy parts on that - just an WWVB antenna, which many "travel radio >> clock" has under the hood. Unfortunately those box using internal >> oscillator and every time it needs the time to be setup on it. >> The reason to have "GPS-2-WWVB" could be use it to sync. some watches >> without relay on WWVB signal propagation. Sometimes its a challenge to >> get WWVB in big cities because of location and QRM. >> >> -- >> WBW, >> >> V.P. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- WBW, V.P.