Power consumption of 3458A reference board / fitting one in a 3457A
I've got two different, but not totally unrelated questions.
-
Does anyone know what is the power consumption of the 3458A reference
board? I was thinking of getting one, boxing it up with a battery, that
allowed it to keep running without mains power. I would like to know the
energy storage the batteries would need to keep it running for 2 days. -
Would there be any point fitting a similar board, with an LTZ1000A in a
3457A 6.5 digit meter? Would it be practical? I wonder if the drift on the
3457A's reference is significant, and so a LTZ1000A would be a worthwhile
upgrade. Or is the main drift not the voltage reference, and so such an
"upgrade" would be a total waste of time/money?
Dave
If you want I will send you a few to play with for a few months.
Thomas Knox
Sr Test and Measurement Engineer
Ascent Concepts and Technology
4475 Whitney Place
Boulder Colorado 80305
1-303-554-0307
actast@hotmail.com
From: volt-nuts volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:45 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: [volt-nuts] Power consumption of 3458A reference board / fitting one in a 3457A
I've got two different, but not totally unrelated questions.
-
Does anyone know what is the power consumption of the 3458A reference
board? I was thinking of getting one, boxing it up with a battery, that
allowed it to keep running without mains power. I would like to know the
energy storage the batteries would need to keep it running for 2 days. -
Would there be any point fitting a similar board, with an LTZ1000A in a
3457A 6.5 digit meter? Would it be practical? I wonder if the drift on the
3457A's reference is significant, and so a LTZ1000A would be a worthwhile
upgrade. Or is the main drift not the voltage reference, and so such an
"upgrade" would be a total waste of time/money?
Dave
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Hi Dave;
In a more detailed response to your question, i do not know a great deal about the 3457A but in recent years I have had multiple 3458A's
on my bench at a time and I have found on those instruments the AD drift can very often be greater then the reference drift. A-Cal will correct the drift but raw data then has a saw tooth appearance. Both A3 board and reference board can vary greatly in unit meeting "Spec".
I have copied a fellow Volt-Nut will who has spent a fair amount of time characterizing both the 3458A and 3457A and may have more insight on the 3457A drift and linearity. If you want to play with a few 3458A ref boards send me an address I am not sure what the current eBay type price is but if you want to keep one or both sell them for a better price in a small payback for your continuing contributions to the Time/Volt-Nuts forums.
Cheers;
Thomas Knox
Sr Test and Measurement Engineer
Ascent Concepts and Technology
4475 Whitney Place
Boulder Colorado 80305
1-303-554-0307
actast@hotmail.com
From: volt-nuts volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:45 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: [volt-nuts] Power consumption of 3458A reference board / fitting one in a 3457A
I've got two different, but not totally unrelated questions.
-
Does anyone know what is the power consumption of the 3458A reference
board? I was thinking of getting one, boxing it up with a battery, that
allowed it to keep running without mains power. I would like to know the
energy storage the batteries would need to keep it running for 2 days. -
Would there be any point fitting a similar board, with an LTZ1000A in a
3457A 6.5 digit meter? Would it be practical? I wonder if the drift on the
3457A's reference is significant, and so a LTZ1000A would be a worthwhile
upgrade. Or is the main drift not the voltage reference, and so such an
"upgrade" would be a total waste of time/money?
Dave
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www.febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.
In message SN1PR16MB06542A8177F82A58835DB4A6DF640@SN1PR16MB0654.namprd16.prod.outlook.com, Tom Knox writes:
Don't forget that the voltage reference is only half of the magic in the 3458A.
You would also need to keep the 40K reference resistor comfy.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Dave,
I have a 3457A but one thing I don't like about it is the native range is
3V vs 10V on most other bench meters. Also the input resistance on the 30V
range is 10Mohm. If you want to improve the reference for better readings
on the 30V range I would find another meter. The 3457A is great for being
quiet, light, and takes less room than a 3456A or 3458A but that's about it
for me. Maybe if you indicate if this is for a more specific purpose or you
just want to hack it. Either way, I would be interested to see if this can
be done.
I know ia LTZ hack has been done on a Solartron 7081 but I also know the
attempt failed on a Keithley 2001 by a few fellow volt-nuts.
On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
I've got two different, but not totally unrelated questions.
-
Does anyone know what is the power consumption of the 3458A reference
board? I was thinking of getting one, boxing it up with a battery, that
allowed it to keep running without mains power. I would like to know the
energy storage the batteries would need to keep it running for 2 days. -
Would there be any point fitting a similar board, with an LTZ1000A in a
3457A 6.5 digit meter? Would it be practical? I wonder if the drift on the
3457A's reference is significant, and so a LTZ1000A would be a worthwhile
upgrade. Or is the main drift not the voltage reference, and so such an
"upgrade" would be a total waste of time/money?
Dave
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mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
On 24 September 2017 at 08:52, Bill Gold wpgold3637@att.net wrote:
David:
Your answer to question #1. I have a spare reference board setup to be
powered up on the bench.
I measure around 36 ma when it starts cold and then around 30 ma when
it
warms up to operating temp. This is at 18 volts.
Of course this is in an enclosed, insulated box. If the LTZ 1000
starts
to cool off then the current goes up again.
Bill
Thank you. That's interesting. Ignoring the warmup time, which would be a
small fraction of 48 hours, if one assumes 30 mA for 48 hours, that's 1440
mA hr. So 15 x 1.2 V Nickel Metal Hydride AA cells would easily do that,
as they are available up to about 2400 mA hr. It means it is practical put
a 3458A reference board in a box, and ship it to someone else for measuring
whilst keeping is powered up in transit.
Dave
I have a 4708 on fleabay now which needs a front panel.....
Or at least a display, since the left side display (frequency) is broken.
If I could get it working, I could use it for my 3457 work.
Willy
On 9/23/2017 3:31 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message SN1PR16MB06542A8177F82A58835DB4A6DF640@SN1PR16MB0654.namprd16.prod.outlook.com, Tom Knox writes:
Don't forget that the voltage reference is only half of the magic in the 3458A.
You would also need to keep the 40K reference resistor comfy.
David:
Your answer to question #1. I have a spare reference board setup to be
powered up on the bench.
I measure around 36 ma when it starts cold and then around 30 ma when it
warms up to operating temp. This is at 18 volts.
Of course this is in an enclosed, insulated box. If the LTZ 1000 starts
to cool off then the current goes up again.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)"
drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" volt-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:45 AM
Subject: [volt-nuts] Power consumption of 3458A reference board / fittingone
in a 3457A
I've got two different, but not totally unrelated questions.
-
Does anyone know what is the power consumption of the 3458A reference
board? I was thinking of getting one, boxing it up with a battery, that
allowed it to keep running without mains power. I would like to know the
energy storage the batteries would need to keep it running for 2 days. -
Would there be any point fitting a similar board, with an LTZ1000A in a
3457A 6.5 digit meter? Would it be practical? I wonder if the drift on the
3457A's reference is significant, and so a LTZ1000A would be a worthwhile
upgrade. Or is the main drift not the voltage reference, and so such an
"upgrade" would be a total waste of time/money?
Dave
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
and follow the instructions there.
On 23 September 2017 at 18:03, Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com wrote:
If you want I will send you a few to play with for a few months.
Thank you very much. I'd like to have a play. I sent you a private email.
Someone suggested using the DCV:DCV ratio mode to look at two references,
but I don't see this facility on the 3457A. I think the only way to compare
two of them would be to put them in series, but back-to-back to subtract
the voltages, and look at the difference on the 3457A.
Thomas Knox
It's odd there's someone selling LTZ1000A chips on eBay at $50 each.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-LTZ1000ACH-Ultra-Precision-Reference-LTZ1000A-/111325506311
It looks like they have been removed from PCBs with a sledge hammer - they
are heavily scratched and/or dented. The sellers seems to have sold quite a
few, yet the chips are only marginally more expensive if bought new from
the manufacturer.
Dave
Hi Dave;
I am not sure I saw you email, please contact me again off list to work out details.
Cheers;
Thomas Knox
Sr Test and Measurement Engineer
Ascent Concepts and Technology
4475 Whitney Place
Boulder Colorado 80305
1-303-554-0307
actast@hotmail.com
From: volt-nuts volt-nuts-bounces@febo.com on behalf of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkirkby@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:10 AM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Power consumption of 3458A reference board / fitting one in a 3457A
On 23 September 2017 at 18:03, Tom Knox actast@hotmail.com wrote:
If you want I will send you a few to play with for a few months.
Thank you very much. I'd like to have a play. I sent you a private email.
Someone suggested using the DCV:DCV ratio mode to look at two references,
but I don't see this facility on the 3457A. I think the only way to compare
two of them would be to put them in series, but back-to-back to subtract
the voltages, and look at the difference on the 3457A.
Thomas Knox
It's odd there's someone selling LTZ1000A chips on eBay at $50 each.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-LTZ1000ACH-Ultra-Precision-Reference-LTZ1000A-/111325506311
[https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EGYAAOSwNRdX7g25/s-l300.jpg]http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-LTZ1000ACH-Ultra-Precision-Reference-LTZ1000A-/111325506311
1x LTZ1000ACH Ultra Precision Reference LTZ1000A | eBayhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-LTZ1000ACH-Ultra-Precision-Reference-LTZ1000A-/111325506311
www.ebay.com
400°C/W Thermal Resistance for LTZ1000A Reduces. Insulation Requirements. Low Noise RF Oscillators. Standard Cells. | eBay!
It looks like they have been removed from PCBs with a sledge hammer - they
are heavily scratched and/or dented. The sellers seems to have sold quite a
few, yet the chips are only marginally more expensive if bought new from
the manufacturer.
Dave
volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
volt-nuts Info Page - American Febo Enterpriseshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
www.febo.com
volt-nuts is a low volume, high SNR list for the discussion of precise voltage measurement and related topics. To see the collection of prior postings to the list ...
and follow the instructions there.