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Lady Heather's Tbolt oscillator auto-tune function

MS
Mark Sims
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 1:51 AM

Okee dokeee...  here it is.  Not much difference.  The initial step is smaller,  but it still spikes.  After that things are pretty much the same.  After it cool down,  I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike.

One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point),  it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw).  Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire.

(Gratuitous astro feature plug...  Lady Heather can show moon rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times)


I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start

of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v.  Of course, the time at
which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the
crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required
for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the
next, so it won't be perfect.  But it will be a hell of a lot better
than starting from 0.499v).

Okee dokeee... here it is. Not much difference. The initial step is smaller, but it still spikes. After that things are pretty much the same. After it cool down, I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike. One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point), it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw). Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire. (Gratuitous astro feature plug... Lady Heather can show moon rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times) ---------------------- > I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v. Of course, the time at which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the next, so it won't be perfect. But it will be a hell of a lot better than starting from 0.499v).
SS
Scott Stobbe
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 2:52 AM

Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Lady Heather, what is the x-axis
scale? I assumed the text line above the plot is the various y-axis scales.
This is good data. Thanks

On Tuesday, 13 September 2016, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','holrum@hotmail.com');> wrote:

Okee dokeee...  here it is.  Not much difference.  The initial step is
smaller,  but it still spikes.  After that things are pretty much the
same.  After it cool down,  I'm doing another run with the initial voltage
set to the peak of the spike.

One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to
the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point),  it appeared to acquire
satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw).
Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be
interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire.

(Gratuitous astro feature plug...  Lady Heather can show moon
rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times)


I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start

of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v.  Of course, the time at
which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the
crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required
for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the
next, so it won't be perfect.  But it will be a hell of a lot better
than starting from 0.499v).

Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Lady Heather, what is the x-axis scale? I assumed the text line above the plot is the various y-axis scales. This is good data. Thanks On Tuesday, 13 September 2016, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','holrum@hotmail.com');>> wrote: > Okee dokeee... here it is. Not much difference. The initial step is > smaller, but it still spikes. After that things are pretty much the > same. After it cool down, I'm doing another run with the initial voltage > set to the peak of the spike. > > One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to > the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point), it appeared to acquire > satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw). > Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be > interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire. > > (Gratuitous astro feature plug... Lady Heather can show moon > rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times) > > ---------------------- > > > I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start > of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v. Of course, the time at > which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the > crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required > for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the > next, so it won't be perfect. But it will be a hell of a lot better > than starting from 0.499v). >
CS
Charles Steinmetz
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 4:06 AM

Mark wrote:

Okee dokeee...  here it is.  Not much difference.  The initial step is smaller,  but it still spikes.  After that things are pretty much the same.  After it cool down,  I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike.

Excellent!  Many thanks, Mark.  I'll be interested to see the next run,
with INIT set to the current peak DAC voltage.  It's looking like some
glitch may be an inherent feature of the Trimble software.

Back when I was still playing with mine, I noticed that there was often
an ugly, long spike with an oscillatory tail coming out of holdover.
Even if the held DAC voltage is very close to the new required DAC
voltage, jam synch is set very tight, the allowable frequency error in
recovery is also set very tight, and the PPS phase coming out of
recovery is small (< 50nS), the control software sends the DAC way off
into the wilderness for no apparent reason.  That does not seem to be
driven by the normal discipline loop -- rather, it appears to me to be
an error in the recovery routine.

One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point),  it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw).

Yes, that's an expected outcome -- the closer you start to 10.000000000,
the faster it should be able to acquire satellites.  Of course,
acquisition has lots of other variables, including the position of the
constellation at start-up time, weather, etc., so we expect it to be a
statistical trend, not a firm rule.

Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire.

Both of mine had way-off INIT settings when I received them (years ago,
now), and yes, they took a few minutes longer to acquire the first two
satellites than after I set INIT to the value that produced the
smoothest transition.

Thanks again, Mark!

Charles

Mark wrote: > Okee dokeee... here it is. Not much difference. The initial step is smaller, but it still spikes. After that things are pretty much the same. After it cool down, I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike. Excellent! Many thanks, Mark. I'll be interested to see the next run, with INIT set to the current peak DAC voltage. It's looking like some glitch may be an inherent feature of the Trimble software. Back when I was still playing with mine, I noticed that there was often an ugly, long spike with an oscillatory tail coming out of holdover. Even if the held DAC voltage is very close to the new required DAC voltage, jam synch is set very tight, the allowable frequency error in recovery is also set very tight, and the PPS phase coming out of recovery is small (< 50nS), the control software sends the DAC way off into the wilderness for no apparent reason. That does not seem to be driven by the normal discipline loop -- rather, it appears to me to be an error in the recovery routine. > One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point), it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw). Yes, that's an expected outcome -- the closer you start to 10.000000000, the faster it should be able to acquire satellites. Of course, acquisition has lots of other variables, including the position of the constellation at start-up time, weather, etc., so we expect it to be a statistical trend, not a firm rule. > Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire. Both of mine had way-off INIT settings when I received them (years ago, now), and yes, they took a few minutes longer to acquire the first two satellites than after I set INIT to the value that produced the smoothest transition. Thanks again, Mark! Charles
PV
Peter Vince
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 8:01 AM

Hi Scott,

 The x-axis is shown in the dark blue text to the right of the big time

display - 60 minutes total, 5 minutes per division.

 Peter

On 14 September 2016 at 03:52, Scott Stobbe scott.j.stobbe@gmail.com
wrote:

Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Lady Heather, what is the x-axis
scale? I assumed the text line above the plot is the various y-axis scales.
This is good data. Thanks

Hi Scott, The x-axis is shown in the dark blue text to the right of the big time display - 60 minutes total, 5 minutes per division. Peter On 14 September 2016 at 03:52, Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe@gmail.com> wrote: > Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Lady Heather, what is the x-axis > scale? I assumed the text line above the plot is the various y-axis scales. > This is good data. Thanks >
MC
Mike Cook
Wed, Sep 14, 2016 10:12 AM

Hi Mark.

Le 14 sept. 2016 à 03:51, Mark Sims holrum@hotmail.com a écrit :

Okee dokeee...  here it is.  Not much difference.  The initial step is smaller,  but it still spikes.  After that things are pretty much the same.  After it cool down,  I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike.

One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point),  it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw).  Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire.

(Gratuitous astro feature plug...  Lady Heather can show moon rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times)

I just upgraded from 3.0 beta and was hoping to get these additions from your download page, but the V4.00 version doesn’t appear to have them. I see from your screen shots that you are up to V4.08. Is this available to the nuts public? Another Q. I see that with 4.0 I see « LEAP: PENDING! «  whereas on your V4.08 screen shot I see the countdown. Where does LH get this info from?

Thx,
Mike


I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start

of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v.  Of course, the time at
which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the
crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required
for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the
next, so it won't be perfect.  But it will be a hell of a lot better
than starting from 0.499v).
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Hi Mark. > Le 14 sept. 2016 à 03:51, Mark Sims <holrum@hotmail.com> a écrit : > > Okee dokeee... here it is. Not much difference. The initial step is smaller, but it still spikes. After that things are pretty much the same. After it cool down, I'm doing another run with the initial voltage set to the peak of the spike. > > One slight difference was with the new initial voltage setting (closer to the current 10.00000000 MHz operating point), it appeared to acquire satellites a few seconds faster (but that could just be luck of the draw). Setting the initial voltage to something far off of optimum would be interesting... I seem to remember it taking several minutes to acquire. > > (Gratuitous astro feature plug... Lady Heather can show moon rise/transit/set/age times in addition to the sun times) > I just upgraded from 3.0 beta and was hoping to get these additions from your download page, but the V4.00 version doesn’t appear to have them. I see from your screen shots that you are up to V4.08. Is this available to the nuts public? Another Q. I see that with 4.0 I see « LEAP: PENDING! « whereas on your V4.08 screen shot I see the countdown. Where does LH get this info from? Thx, Mike > ---------------------- > >> I would be very interested to see the result of another dead cold start > of this same Tbolt, with INIT set to 0.518v. Of course, the time at > which the second satellite is acquired (hence, the temperature of the > crystal when discipline begins, and thus, the exact DAC voltage required > for a stepless transition, will be a bit different from one start to the > next, so it won't be perfect. But it will be a hell of a lot better > than starting from 0.499v). > <tboltpup2.gif>_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. » George Bernard Shaw