I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They are proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I want to use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for better accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock signal toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output frequency is not affected. Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as these are proprietary to a customer. Any experts on these oscillators out there? Thanks, Mark

Hi As a guess - the oven circuit has stopped working. Next step would be to tear it open and trace out the schematic. After that make reasonable guesses for any parts that are poorly labeled. Much of what shows up on eBay has been through the ringer in China. A high percentage the OCXO's I get on eBay show up with issues as a result. There is no way to be sure this or that part was ok before it came out of the gear it was in. It’s always a gamble. Bob > On Nov 12, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They are > proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I want to > use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for better > accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in > frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around > hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock signal > toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output > frequency is not affected. > > Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as these > are proprietary to a customer. > > Any experts on these oscillators out there? > > Thanks, > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

The seller has replaced it with one that does the exact same thing, which is weird to have two fail in the same way. They are getting hot and the frequency varies with the input voltage, so I tended to guess not the heater as I don't think it could pull that far over temp, and it always is high. If it has an unlocked PLL on the output, with no control, would it go to the max frequency? Since the seller seems to be reasonable, I was trying to figure out best not to waste both of our's time, and me get a good unit and them getting a sale. Mark On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > As a guess - the oven circuit has stopped working. Next step > would be to tear it open and trace out the schematic. After that > make reasonable guesses for any parts that are poorly labeled. > > Much of what shows up on eBay has been through the ringer in > China. A high percentage the OCXO's I get on eBay show up with > issues as a result. There is no way to be sure this or that part was > ok before it came out of the gear it was in. It’s always a gamble. > > Bob > > > On Nov 12, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They > are > > proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I want > to > > use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for better > > accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in > > frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around > > hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock > signal > > toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output > > frequency is not affected. > > > > Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as these > > are proprietary to a customer. > > > > Any experts on these oscillators out there? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi It’s pretty certain that there is no PLL inside an 80 MHz low phase noise OCXO. If it is 4 KHz off frequency at 80 MHz, that gets you into the 50 ppm range. Either it is running on a really odd crystal spur or it’s not at the right temperature. Drifting around by 100’s of Hz ( = ppm’s at 80 MHz) is also a good indication that the oven is not doing it’s job correctly. If multiple units do the same thing, either they all got busted being puled from gear (unfortunately that’s common) or you are running it at the wrong supply voltage. Bob > On Nov 12, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> wrote: > > The seller has replaced it with one that does the exact same thing, which > is weird to have two fail in the same way. They are getting hot and the > frequency varies with the input voltage, so I tended to guess not the > heater as I don't think it could pull that far over temp, and it always is > high. If it has an unlocked PLL on the output, with no control, would it go > to the max frequency? Since the seller seems to be reasonable, I was trying > to figure out best not to waste both of our's time, and me get a good unit > and them getting a sale. > > Mark > > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> As a guess - the oven circuit has stopped working. Next step >> would be to tear it open and trace out the schematic. After that >> make reasonable guesses for any parts that are poorly labeled. >> >> Much of what shows up on eBay has been through the ringer in >> China. A high percentage the OCXO's I get on eBay show up with >> issues as a result. There is no way to be sure this or that part was >> ok before it came out of the gear it was in. It’s always a gamble. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They >> are >>> proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I want >> to >>> use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for better >>> accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in >>> frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around >>> hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock >> signal >>> toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output >>> frequency is not affected. >>> >>> Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as these >>> are proprietary to a customer. >>> >>> Any experts on these oscillators out there? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Mark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

The standard oscillator, 501-14057 ( www.wenzel.com/wp-content/parts/501-14057.pdf) will lock to an external 10 MHz reference and this one is marked "80 MHz" and "15V on the label. Maybe someone swapped the labels. I did try lowering the supply voltage. It got to 80 MHz at about 11V and still did not lock to the reference. This oscillator is specified at 1e-6/year aging. That is way less than it is off now. Mark On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > It’s pretty certain that there is no PLL inside an 80 MHz low phase noise > OCXO. > If it is 4 KHz off frequency at 80 MHz, that gets you into the 50 ppm > range. Either > it is running on a really odd crystal spur or it’s not at the right > temperature. Drifting > around by 100’s of Hz ( = ppm’s at 80 MHz) is also a good indication that > the oven > is not doing it’s job correctly. > > If multiple units do the same thing, either they all got busted being > puled from gear > (unfortunately that’s common) or you are running it at the wrong supply > voltage. > > Bob > > > > > On Nov 12, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > The seller has replaced it with one that does the exact same thing, which > > is weird to have two fail in the same way. They are getting hot and the > > frequency varies with the input voltage, so I tended to guess not the > > heater as I don't think it could pull that far over temp, and it always > is > > high. If it has an unlocked PLL on the output, with no control, would it > go > > to the max frequency? Since the seller seems to be reasonable, I was > trying > > to figure out best not to waste both of our's time, and me get a good > unit > > and them getting a sale. > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> As a guess - the oven circuit has stopped working. Next step > >> would be to tear it open and trace out the schematic. After that > >> make reasonable guesses for any parts that are poorly labeled. > >> > >> Much of what shows up on eBay has been through the ringer in > >> China. A high percentage the OCXO's I get on eBay show up with > >> issues as a result. There is no way to be sure this or that part was > >> ok before it came out of the gear it was in. It’s always a gamble. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They > >> are > >>> proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I > want > >> to > >>> use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for > better > >>> accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in > >>> frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around > >>> hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock > >> signal > >>> toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output > >>> frequency is not affected. > >>> > >>> Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as > these > >>> are proprietary to a customer. > >>> > >>> Any experts on these oscillators out there? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi I guess my point was more that there is not a VCO / PLL combo in an OCXO. If dropping the supply gets you on frequency, then you have moved things a lot with that voltage change. 50 PPM is a lot of delta T on any normal OCXO crystal. That strongly suggests there is something wrong in the control circuit. Bob > On Nov 12, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> wrote: > > The standard oscillator, 501-14057 ( > www.wenzel.com/wp-content/parts/501-14057.pdf) will lock to an external 10 > MHz reference and this one is marked "80 MHz" and "15V on the label. Maybe > someone swapped the labels. I did try lowering the supply voltage. It got > to 80 MHz at about 11V and still did not lock to the reference. This > oscillator is specified at 1e-6/year aging. That is way less than it is off > now. > > Mark > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> It’s pretty certain that there is no PLL inside an 80 MHz low phase noise >> OCXO. >> If it is 4 KHz off frequency at 80 MHz, that gets you into the 50 ppm >> range. Either >> it is running on a really odd crystal spur or it’s not at the right >> temperature. Drifting >> around by 100’s of Hz ( = ppm’s at 80 MHz) is also a good indication that >> the oven >> is not doing it’s job correctly. >> >> If multiple units do the same thing, either they all got busted being >> puled from gear >> (unfortunately that’s common) or you are running it at the wrong supply >> voltage. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> The seller has replaced it with one that does the exact same thing, which >>> is weird to have two fail in the same way. They are getting hot and the >>> frequency varies with the input voltage, so I tended to guess not the >>> heater as I don't think it could pull that far over temp, and it always >> is >>> high. If it has an unlocked PLL on the output, with no control, would it >> go >>> to the max frequency? Since the seller seems to be reasonable, I was >> trying >>> to figure out best not to waste both of our's time, and me get a good >> unit >>> and them getting a sale. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> As a guess - the oven circuit has stopped working. Next step >>>> would be to tear it open and trace out the schematic. After that >>>> make reasonable guesses for any parts that are poorly labeled. >>>> >>>> Much of what shows up on eBay has been through the ringer in >>>> China. A high percentage the OCXO's I get on eBay show up with >>>> issues as a result. There is no way to be sure this or that part was >>>> ok before it came out of the gear it was in. It’s always a gamble. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have obtained a couple 80 MHz Wenzel Oscillators P/N 500-16423A. They >>>> are >>>>> proprietary but similar to the VHF PLO and 501-14057 Oscillators. I >> want >>>> to >>>>> use this to replace the internal oscillator in my Perseus SDR, for >> better >>>>> accuracy and maybe better phase noise. Both of these are way off in >>>>> frequency, about 4-5 kHz high from the ideal 80 MHz, and drift around >>>>> hundreds of Hz. I believe they are broken in some way. The PLL lock >>>> signal >>>>> toggles when I put an input into the 10 MHz reference, but the output >>>>> frequency is not affected. >>>>> >>>>> Wenzel has answered some of my questions, but can't get specific as >> these >>>>> are proprietary to a customer. >>>>> >>>>> Any experts on these oscillators out there? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Sounds like he's talking about the small 'bricks' that Wenzel sells with internal PLL-disciplined OCXOs. Some of these expect oddball input frequencies. Just looking at the 80 MHz parts on the shelf around here, 500-14273 wants a 13 MHz input, 500-25010 uses 24.576 MHz, and 500-25009 uses 19.2 MHz. So that's probably the issue, if two of them seem to be failing the same way. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Camp > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:03 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wenzel VHF PLO Oscillators Off Frequency > > Hi > > I guess my point was more that there is not a VCO / PLL combo in an OCXO. > > If dropping the supply gets you on frequency, then you have moved things a > lot > with that voltage change. 50 PPM is a lot of delta T on any normal OCXO > crystal. > That strongly suggests there is something wrong in the control circuit. > > Bob > > > On Nov 12, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > The standard oscillator, 501-14057 ( > > www.wenzel.com/wp-content/parts/501-14057.pdf) will lock to an > external 10 > > MHz reference and this one is marked "80 MHz" and "15V on the label. > Maybe > > someone swapped the labels. I did try lowering the supply voltage. It got > > to 80 MHz at about 11V and still did not lock to the reference. This > > oscillator is specified at 1e-6/year aging. That is way less than it is off > > now. > >

Yes, exactly those. With no input, would they be expected to be 4 kHz off? The spec for the standard part wants the input to be within 1e-7. I would not expect them to be so far off free running. I saw 13 MHz on the 500-14273 and stayed away from those. Do you know of any part numbers that use 10 MHz in? Wenzel would not tell me the exact specs of the 500 series parts available on ebay and only sent me the specs for the standard 501-14057 that takes 10 MHz. I have a couple 8642As and can generate any frequency I want with decent phase noise, locked to my 10 MHz reference. I could try these frequencies above. Do you know what the pll lock output does when the input frequency is off? These toggle high for any frequencies I have put in. Any other ideas are appreciated. Thanks, Mark On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:19 PM, John Miles <john@miles.io> wrote: > Sounds like he's talking about the small 'bricks' that Wenzel sells with > internal PLL-disciplined OCXOs. Some of these expect oddball input > frequencies. Just looking at the 80 MHz parts on the shelf around here, > 500-14273 wants a 13 MHz input, 500-25010 uses 24.576 MHz, and 500-25009 > uses 19.2 MHz. So that's probably the issue, if two of them seem to be > failing the same way. > > -- john, KE5FX > Miles Design LLC > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob > > Camp > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:03 PM > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wenzel VHF PLO Oscillators Off Frequency > > > > Hi > > > > I guess my point was more that there is not a VCO / PLL combo in an OCXO. > > > > If dropping the supply gets you on frequency, then you have moved things > a > > lot > > with that voltage change. 50 PPM is a lot of delta T on any normal OCXO > > crystal. > > That strongly suggests there is something wrong in the control circuit. > > > > Bob > > > > > On Nov 12, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > The standard oscillator, 501-14057 ( > > > www.wenzel.com/wp-content/parts/501-14057.pdf) will lock to an > > external 10 > > > MHz reference and this one is marked "80 MHz" and "15V on the label. > > Maybe > > > someone swapped the labels. I did try lowering the supply voltage. It > got > > > to 80 MHz at about 11V and still did not lock to the reference. This > > > oscillator is specified at 1e-6/year aging. That is way less than it > is off > > > now. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi If it is a OCVCXO and it pulls > 50 ppm at 80 MHz, it’s got terrible phase noise close in. That’s true with or without the PLL engaged. Bob > On Nov 12, 2017, at 7:46 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, exactly those. With no input, would they be expected to be 4 kHz off? > The spec for the standard part wants the input to be within 1e-7. I would > not expect them to be so far off free running. > > I saw 13 MHz on the 500-14273 and stayed away from those. > > Do you know of any part numbers that use 10 MHz in? Wenzel would not tell > me the exact specs of the 500 series parts available on ebay and only sent > me the specs for the standard 501-14057 that takes 10 MHz. > > I have a couple 8642As and can generate any frequency I want with decent > phase noise, locked to my 10 MHz reference. I could try these frequencies > above. > > Do you know what the pll lock output does when the input frequency is off? > These toggle high for any frequencies I have put in. > > Any other ideas are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:19 PM, John Miles <john@miles.io> wrote: > >> Sounds like he's talking about the small 'bricks' that Wenzel sells with >> internal PLL-disciplined OCXOs. Some of these expect oddball input >> frequencies. Just looking at the 80 MHz parts on the shelf around here, >> 500-14273 wants a 13 MHz input, 500-25010 uses 24.576 MHz, and 500-25009 >> uses 19.2 MHz. So that's probably the issue, if two of them seem to be >> failing the same way. >> >> -- john, KE5FX >> Miles Design LLC >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob >>> Camp >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:03 PM >>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement >>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Wenzel VHF PLO Oscillators Off Frequency >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I guess my point was more that there is not a VCO / PLL combo in an OCXO. >>> >>> If dropping the supply gets you on frequency, then you have moved things >> a >>> lot >>> with that voltage change. 50 PPM is a lot of delta T on any normal OCXO >>> crystal. >>> That strongly suggests there is something wrong in the control circuit. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The standard oscillator, 501-14057 ( >>>> www.wenzel.com/wp-content/parts/501-14057.pdf) will lock to an >>> external 10 >>>> MHz reference and this one is marked "80 MHz" and "15V on the label. >>> Maybe >>>> someone swapped the labels. I did try lowering the supply voltage. It >> got >>>> to 80 MHz at about 11V and still did not lock to the reference. This >>>> oscillator is specified at 1e-6/year aging. That is way less than it >> is off >>>> now. >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

> Yes, exactly those. With no input, would they be expected to be 4 kHz off? > The spec for the standard part wants the input to be within 1e-7. I would > not expect them to be so far off free running. That does seem like a lot. I'd expect a few hundred Hz of error at the most. > I saw 13 MHz on the 500-14273 and stayed away from those. > > Do you know of any part numbers that use 10 MHz in? Wenzel would not tell > me the exact specs of the 500 series parts available on ebay and only sent > me the specs for the standard 501-14057 that takes 10 MHz. Most of the 100 and 200 MHz bricks I've seen work with either 5 or 10 MHz . I don't know if I've seen any 80 MHz units that do. All of the ones I've bought on eBay have been from the customer-proprietary 500- series with unusual input frequencies. > Do you know what the pll lock output does when the input frequency is off? > These toggle high for any frequencies I have put in. Not offhand. If there's a PFD inside it should be easy to zero in on the right frequency, but if there's only a phase detector you may need to set up a sweep and watch the tuning-voltage output on a scope. I don't remember it taking very long to find the correct input frequencies for the ones I bought, though. -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC