Anders: What antenna are you using that you call the "mini-whip?" Specifically, how long is the "whip?" Thanks, --- Graham == On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Anders Wallin <anders.e.e.wallin@gmail.com> wrote: > FWIW, for fun I measured the LF stations MSF, DCF, and TDF just a few days > ago. The signals look like this from our site: > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MSF.jpg > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/DCF.jpg > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/TDF.jpg > > I guess the +/- 40 Hz side-bands on TDF are by design? > > I have an SDR set up also, so the gnu-radio demodulators could run in > parallel on each of these, and the sdr sampling clock could come from a > local clock. One more project on the to-do list... > > Anders > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:42 AM, Iain Young <iain@g7iii.net> wrote: > > > On 05/03/17 20:23, paul swed wrote: > > > > Gilles what signal is that at 162KHz. A European station? Nice thats its > C > >> controlled. > >> > > > > That's TDF from France. Their equivalent of WWV/MSF/DCF. Used to carry > > the AM Station France Inter as well, but that went when France turned > > off all LW, MW, and LORAN stations at the end of 2016. > > > > The Time Signal is Phase Modulated (I have a gnuradio decoder which > > works very well if anyone is interested) > > > > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDF_time_signal and > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allouis_longwave_transmitter > > > > With no AM modulation, there are obvious benefits with regards to using > > it as a frequency reference. Average phase and frequency deviation is > > zero over 200msec (see link above for details) > > > > > > Iain > > > > PS, The signal is used by the French railways SNCF, the electricity > > distributor ENEDIS, airports, hospitals according to the Allouis link > > above > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

On 3/6/2017 3:47 PM, Graham / KE9H wrote: > What antenna are you using that you call the "mini-whip?" > > Specifically, how long is the "whip?" http://dl1dbc.net/SAQ/miniwhip.html 73 Alberto I2PHD

Just for the heck of it fired up the hp3586 on 162KHz tuned +/- 2 Khz both a vertical antenna 67 feet and horizontal dipole 160 ft. Nothing at 1800 utc near Boston Ma. But in the sun for another7 hours. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Graham / KE9H <ke9h.graham@gmail.com> wrote: > Anders: > > What antenna are you using that you call the "mini-whip?" > > Specifically, how long is the "whip?" > > Thanks, > --- Graham > > == > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Anders Wallin <anders.e.e.wallin@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > FWIW, for fun I measured the LF stations MSF, DCF, and TDF just a few > days > > ago. The signals look like this from our site: > > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MSF.jpg > > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/DCF.jpg > > http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/TDF.jpg > > > > I guess the +/- 40 Hz side-bands on TDF are by design? > > > > I have an SDR set up also, so the gnu-radio demodulators could run in > > parallel on each of these, and the sdr sampling clock could come from a > > local clock. One more project on the to-do list... > > > > Anders > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 12:42 AM, Iain Young <iain@g7iii.net> wrote: > > > > > On 05/03/17 20:23, paul swed wrote: > > > > > > Gilles what signal is that at 162KHz. A European station? Nice thats > its > > C > > >> controlled. > > >> > > > > > > That's TDF from France. Their equivalent of WWV/MSF/DCF. Used to carry > > > the AM Station France Inter as well, but that went when France turned > > > off all LW, MW, and LORAN stations at the end of 2016. > > > > > > The Time Signal is Phase Modulated (I have a gnuradio decoder which > > > works very well if anyone is interested) > > > > > > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDF_time_signal and > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allouis_longwave_transmitter > > > > > > With no AM modulation, there are obvious benefits with regards to using > > > it as a frequency reference. Average phase and frequency deviation is > > > zero over 200msec (see link above for details) > > > > > > > > > Iain > > > > > > PS, The signal is used by the French railways SNCF, the electricity > > > distributor ENEDIS, airports, hospitals according to the Allouis link > > > above > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > > > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi, Actually, even with some unknown fields, as you have the majority know through prediction, much of the gain is being had that way. The actual information rate of even GPS is very low. Cheers, Magnus On 03/06/2017 08:26 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > One way to “cheat” at recovering a time signal is to demodulate it with > known information. Once you know the information from the first “frame” > of data (time, date, etc) you can predict what the information in the next > frame will be. Yes it does take a little work. If the signal is completely defined > (no extra data about the weather forecast or something like that) you can > reduce your bandwidth significantly. > > Bob > >> On Mar 5, 2017, at 11:42 PM, Iain Young <iain@g7iii.net> wrote: >> >> On 05/03/17 20:23, paul swed wrote: >> >>> Gilles what signal is that at 162KHz. A European station? Nice thats its C >>> controlled. >> >> That's TDF from France. Their equivalent of WWV/MSF/DCF. Used to carry >> the AM Station France Inter as well, but that went when France turned >> off all LW, MW, and LORAN stations at the end of 2016. >> >> The Time Signal is Phase Modulated (I have a gnuradio decoder which >> works very well if anyone is interested) >> >> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDF_time_signal and >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allouis_longwave_transmitter >> >> With no AM modulation, there are obvious benefits with regards to using >> it as a frequency reference. Average phase and frequency deviation is >> zero over 200msec (see link above for details) >> >> >> Iain >> >> PS, The signal is used by the French railways SNCF, the electricity >> distributor ENEDIS, airports, hospitals according to the Allouis link >> above >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >